<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems --> <!--X-From-R13: Quevf Uenl <ptNnzv-pt.UenlEntr.Sqzbagba.OP.QO> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 20:52:48 -0800 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199812070457.VAA14851@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00915.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00917.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00920.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00917.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00916">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00916">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00916">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Chris Gray <<A HREF="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 21:57:29 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> [Sunny Gulati:] >1. I want to build a world where the players take part in the economy > and law of the world, where socializing is looked towards. [that's > a whole 'nuther topic, and doesn't require dream #2 to be > implemented first] Been lots of discussion about that. No real conclusion, other than "it would be good, but hard to do well". >3. I want to publish a framework/API/convention that makes it easy for > OTHER people to build a client/server/mudlib combination, to make > ultima-online type of worlds. Make it open source :), see where > the world takes it. Sounds like DevMUD could fit that bill. >** Everything still depends on "telnetting" into a mud just as we do >nowadays. I want to layer the client/server connections on top of >telnet. I'm quite curious as to why you want to put stuff on top of telnet. Since you are requiring a custom client anyway, why not use a custom binary protocol of some kind? That cuts down on your communication, and avoids altogether the problems of accidental interpretation. >I would like this system to be runnable over a 14.4 or 28.8 link. >Actually, i have my mom's laptop - its a 486/25 running win95. If I >can get the client written in Perl/Tk, get it running on there, >connected to the mud via PPP on a nullmodem cable running at 19200 and >it seems to work well, then I'll say i've designed a good system. Should be doable. My AmigaMUD system uses a binary protocol to the custom client, and it is actually playable over a 1200 bps link. At 9600 bps, it responds very little different than a local connection. >** SERVER->CLIENT: "hey I want a connection to your object xyz, > instance foom, and my socket id is 8192". (different socket number > for every connection) Beware of running out of sockets in the server process! >0. Is there any previous work on this? I've only been on this list > for about 2 months now. I've tried going through the archives.. > there's a LOT of stuff out there. One of these days I'll just > download all the .tar.gz's and less and grep through them. (JCL, > I could not get the "search" function to work well.. it > never returned on me. waited about 5-10 minutes.) A bit of what you are asking about was done in a primitive fashion in my old AmigaMUD. Hopefully more will be done in a newer version. But, that comes after some DevMUD fiddling, and some byte-code testing, and writing a whole new client....... >7. Looking like this would involve a bunch of short packets. I'm not sure > what the effect is of various packet sizes regarding congestion and stuff. > Maybe some sort of buffering is in order; bundling several individual > messages into one ~...<CR> and MCSL...<CR> pair? How much of a difference > would this make? Maybe the layers can be designed so that actual > interpretation of a ~message<CR> allows for decoding of an array of messages > (though initial implementation, only one message is returned). I can't think of any reason *not* to buffer things up. What I did was to keep buffering until either my buffer was full or the output got directed to a different client. A better approach would have buffers for all clients. Then, you only force-flush them at the end of the top-level event which caused all the activity. That would be something like a command entered by a user, or a complete action step by an NPC. -- Don't design inefficiency in - it'll happen in the implementation. - me Chris Gray cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00918" HREF="msg00918.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> <greear#cyberhighway,net></li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00917" HREF="msg00917.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Sunny Gulati <sunnywiz#radiks,net></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00915.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Introduction</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00917.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00920.html">[MUD-Dev] Thought Treasure</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00917.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00916"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00916"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00932" HREF="msg00932.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd)</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 23:18 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00937" HREF="msg00937.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Netscape's "Gecko" Browsing Engine (fwd)</A></strong>, greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Tue 08 Dec 1998, 02:04 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00922" HREF="msg00922.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Stack-Based NPC AI</A></strong>, Felix A. Croes <a href="mailto:felix#dworkin,nl">felix#dworkin,nl</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 19:00 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00920" HREF="msg00920.html">[MUD-Dev] Thought Treasure</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 18:27 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00916" HREF="msg00916.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 04:52 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00917" HREF="msg00917.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong>, Sunny Gulati <a href="mailto:sunnywiz#radiks,net">sunnywiz#radiks,net</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 05:50 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00918" HREF="msg00918.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong>, greear <a href="mailto:greear#cyberhighway,net">greear#cyberhighway,net</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 06:04 GMT </LI> </UL> <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="00919" HREF="msg00919.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 06:05 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00924" HREF="msg00924.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: mud client development systems</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Mon 07 Dec 1998, 19:01 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>