06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 21st comment:
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Chris Bailey said:
It could just be me, and maybe I'm stretching it pretty far with this but going from "no idea how to code" to writing a breadth-first auto-mapping snippet that happens to be absolutely identical (including strange naming conventions) to that of an experienced programmers seems a bit off.


I'd just like to say, new doesn't mean entirely clueless. I left FFC sometime around 2004 if I recall, and wrote my mapper in 2006. I originally had learned to code out of disgust with the way Josh operated the MUD in question, and in the wake of it going down, was going to write a similar 'replacement' along with a fellow player. It's not like I just did that overnight as my first project; I started small like most people.
06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 22nd comment:
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Needs more Crat flaming us all.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 23rd comment:
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Midboss said:
Chris Bailey said:
It could just be me, and maybe I'm stretching it pretty far with this but going from "no idea how to code" to writing a breadth-first auto-mapping snippet that happens to be absolutely identical (including strange naming conventions) to that of an experienced programmers seems a bit off.


I'd just like to say, new doesn't mean entirely clueless. I left FFC sometime around 2004 if I recall, and wrote my mapper in 2006. I originally had learned to code out of disgust with the way Josh operated the MUD in question, and in the wake of it going down, was going to write a similar 'replacement' along with a fellow player. It's not like I just did that overnight as my first project; I started small like most people.


Everything that happened in regards to his involvement in FFC and the MUD they were working on that the mapper was written for is all extremely intertwined in the history and timeline of events that involves my game going down for a bit and coming back up. The FF Theme has been a bit of a small world for a while now. It is the timeline of events that relates to my game, combined with backups of my MUD, trillian chat logs that reference dates, and the FFC code that I have which leaves me pretty convinced there's little to no chance that Midboss would have ever had an opportunity to view Runter's code (assuming the code in question was ever even implemented into FFC, which based on the dates and the code I have in hand, I'm far from convinced Kai ever used it). What I know of him personally, and how closely we've worked in MUD Development together over the past 3+ years, and my presence on his game as the mapper was being coded, changed, and debugged that leaves me certain that he has not ripped off anyone's code.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 24th comment:
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Hades_Kane said:
I have a copy of Final Fantasy Compendium as it existed about a month prior to Kai leaving and Josh taking over. 2 months prior to that, there are change notes posted in regards to the new world map and the new areas being built to go along with it.

The mapper that Kai had in FFC in June of 2004, a month before he left, is nothing like what Midboss uploaded. Runter, you said that you wrote your mapper 9 years ago? Why would Kai not have that mapper implemented in FFC a month prior to his leaving (which was 4 years after you say you wrote the mapper you claim Midboss ripped off)?


That's a fair question and I'll answer it two ways. Why would I be trying to smear someone on here for releasing a random mapper snippet? I wouldn't.

Second answer, they are both my implementations. I don't know why he didn't install the second one (if he didn't). He asked me to send him an update and I did. I don't know what happened to the code other than midboss getting it. I didn't work on his mud. I don't know. The first one uses recursion to work which I did not like. I was new to C when I wrote both of these implementations. Over the years the code has cleaned up and I went through to C++.

I didn't bring this to the forums. He did. But I'm not going to be called a liar by someone who is genuinely a code thief at worse, and at best a liar now.
06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 25th comment:
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Are you claiming you've copyrighted breadth-first searches?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 26th comment:
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I'm done defending myself. Anyone who knows me knows what's the deal here.

Anyone who knows what was going on with Kaiousama and especially Josh from FFC knows what's going on.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 27th comment:
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Midboss said:
Are you claiming you've copyrighted breadth-first searches?


I'm claiming that the code you posted was my damn code from start to finish.
06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 28th comment:
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I have an idea what was going on with them, and I have no idea what's going on.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 29th comment:
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So next time you decide to steal code at least have the damn sense to change it a little bit.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 30th comment:
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Runter said:
That's a fair question and I'll answer it two ways. Why would I be trying to smear someone on here for releasing a random mapper snippet? I wouldn't.


I don't know you personally, so I can't answer that question in good faith.

If I had reason to think you were vicious or otherwise concerned about competition, I would at least consider the possibility that with you now coding for (what I believe to be an unauthorized running copy of) Final Fantasy Compendium, there might be reason for you to be concerned with snippets floating around that mimics some of the functionality of FFC.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 31st comment:
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I've sent Davion a rather lengthy message about this issue, outlining the time frames as illustrated by my code backups, the FFC code I have in my possession, the chat logs I have dating back to early 2006… and I'll be more than happy to do what I can to help give a frame of reference on the dates surrounding all of this, as I think it illustrates pretty clearly the high unlikelihood/impossibility of Midboss ever seeing that code.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 32nd comment:
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Hades_Kane said:
Runter said:
That's a fair question and I'll answer it two ways. Why would I be trying to smear someone on here for releasing a random mapper snippet? I wouldn't.


I don't know you personally, so I can't answer that question in good faith.

If I had reason to think you were vicious or otherwise concerned about competition, I would at least consider the possibility that with you now coding for (what I believe to be an unauthorized running copy of) Final Fantasy Compendium, there might be reason for you to be concerned with snippets floating around that mimics some of the functionality of FFC.


ROFL. Unauthorized code being used? I don't care one bit about FFC. I was asked to help and I am, but the facts are the code is NOT functionality from FFC. The functionality was from an even older MUD called Feltain and anyone who has known me for the last 10 years knows that
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 33rd comment:
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I'd also like to point out, that if Midboss had done anything wrong or had anything to hide, I don't see what motive he might have for bringing this out into the open.

I've been trying to communicate privately with the parties involved to try to reach some sort of conclusion to this.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 34th comment:
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Runter said:
I was asked to help and I am, but the facts are the code is NOT functionality from FFC. The functionality was from an even older MUD called Feltain and anyone who has known me for the last 10 years knows that


I'm just trying to get this straight, honestly, I'm not trolling you.

Are you saying that the code that Midboss uploaded, the mapper you are saying he ripped off, wasn't functionality from FFC, but functionality from an older MUD of your's called Feltain?

If this wasn't code given to Kai/FFC, then what does Kai even have to do with all of this?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 35th comment:
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Because he's a coward. He wasn't going to really defend himself. Because it's undefendable.

If he wants to sit down and go through line for line of the functionality of MY code then we can. I doubt he'll really be able to.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 36th comment:
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Hades_Kane said:
Runter said:
I was asked to help and I am, but the facts are the code is NOT functionality from FFC. The functionality was from an even older MUD called Feltain and anyone who has known me for the last 10 years knows that


I'm just trying to get this straight, honestly, I'm not trolling you.

Are you saying that the code that Midboss uploaded, the mapper you are saying he ripped off, wasn't functionality from FFC, but functionality from an older MUD of your's called Feltain?

If this wasn't code given to Kai/FFC, then what does Kai even have to do with all of this?


Yeah you are. And how dare you try to smear me.
I'm the victim and I tried to be classy about this.
But damn it, I'm not standing for it.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 37th comment:
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Runter said:
Hades_Kane said:
Runter said:
I was asked to help and I am, but the facts are the code is NOT functionality from FFC. The functionality was from an even older MUD called Feltain and anyone who has known me for the last 10 years knows that


I'm just trying to get this straight, honestly, I'm not trolling you.

Are you saying that the code that Midboss uploaded, the mapper you are saying he ripped off, wasn't functionality from FFC, but functionality from an older MUD of your's called Feltain?

If this wasn't code given to Kai/FFC, then what does Kai even have to do with all of this?


Yeah you are. And how dare you try to smear me.
I'm the victim and I tried to be classy about this.
But damn it, I'm not standing for it.


No, I'm really not.

You asked what you might have to gain from that. I told you I couldn't answer that in good faith, and that if I had reason to think you were devious, that you might have some reason.

I'm genuinely trying to get to the bottom of this.

And I repeat:

Are you saying that the code that Midboss uploaded, the mapper you are saying he ripped off, wasn't functionality from FFC, but functionality from an older MUD of your's called Feltain?

If this wasn't code given to Kai/FFC, then what does Kai even have to do with all of this?


I'm completely and totally against code thievery, but looking at the timeline here and the copy of FFC I have, I see little to no opportunity for Midboss to have ever had his hands on your code.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 38th comment:
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Quote
Are you saying that the code that Midboss uploaded, the mapper you are saying he ripped off, wasn't functionality from FFC, but functionality from an older MUD of your's called Feltain?

If this wasn't code given to Kai/FFC, then what does Kai even have to do with all of this?


Didn't you already see Midboss admitting to come to my mud and talk to me about it? And ask permission to reverse engineer it and release it which I totally didn't mind?
That means he at least acknowledges that it FFCs originated there.

I already have said that Kaiousama eventually was given permission to use the code with one caveat: He does not distribute it.

The code that Midboss has aquired was written after Kaiousama had the code put into FFC. I don't know where he got it from. I don't know if it ever was in FFC. Kaiousama had access to it. It probably was in his access at some point. I don't know. I don't care. They're both written by me.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 39th comment:
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I'm willing to sit down in this code and explain it line for line. Let's do it. I'll explain lines like
int g_list[MAX_BFS][3];
int c_list[MAX_BFS][3];


are.

I'll explain that they stand for grey and colored list by is by no means something unique to BFS and terminology I have in the past described to people.
06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 40th comment:
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They were taught to me by whoever it was that explained the BFS algorithm to me. I WANT to say it was Davion; I know it was another MUD coder whom I held in great regard, so it was someone like you, Tyche, or Davion. It was over AIM; so that rules out all but you and Davi.
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