06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 41st comment:
Votes: 0
What was taught to you? To use the same exact code line for line word for word?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 42nd comment:
Votes: 0
case SECT_WATER_SWIM:
if (number_range (1, 3) < 2)
return "{C~";
else
return "{c~";
case SECT_WATER_NOSWIM:
if (number_range (1, 3) < 2)
return "{B~";
else
return "{b~";


Here's another gem that wouldn't randomly happen. Not only is it the same colors for the sector as I used for in the harbor so that it would look like waves. It's the only special case outputs that changed to other characters. What a coincidence, it's also the only ones in his snippet.
06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 43rd comment:
Votes: 0
You're saying the shared idea to randomly change the color of water sectors to look like waves wouldn't randomly occur?

You give your own creativity way too much credit.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 44th comment:
Votes: 0
I'm saying it's the same exact lines to accomplish it. The entire file is the same code with slightly different comments.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 45th comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
case SECT_WATER_SWIM:
if (number_range (1, 3) < 2)
return "{C~";
else
return "{c~";
case SECT_WATER_NOSWIM:
if (number_range (1, 3) < 2)
return "{B~";
else
return "{b~";


Here's another gem that wouldn't randomly happen. Not only is it the same colors for the sector as I used for in the harbor so that it would look like waves. It's the only special case outputs that changed to other characters. What a coincidence, it's also the only ones in his snippet.


I've seen that feature in other MUD's wilderness systems, actually, including the old FF1 and DBZ based games coded by Trenton. They actually also used the tilde for the waves with the randomly changing colors…
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 46th comment:
Votes: 0
Hades, ITS THE SAME EXACT CODE. EVEN FORMATTED THE SAME.

This isn't a case of someone by emulating a feature. This is a case of something taking someone elses work and posting it as their own. Work that wasn't ever intended to be seen by the public. It's really despicable.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 47th comment:
Votes: 0
Sometime in 2000: Runter writes his mapper code
Early 2004: The coder for EoT flakes, I attempt to continue running the game
Midboss is hired as a builder under the name of Shade
March 2004: Kai posts a change note about the new world map and the areas having to be
rebuilt
June 2004: Where the last change note I have by Kai in my copy of FFC
July 2004: The last modification of Shade's pfile and his area. This was the point that
Midboss left EoT as an Admin to work for Josh on FFC. In just a month after my
copy of FFC, Kai is gone and Josh has taken over.
Mid 2004: EoT closes as the last person who seemed interested in it leaves (Midboss/Shade)
October 2005: After helping an associate with his game, he gets me server space on
Ryzic's VPS. Shortly thereafter, Ryzic and I begin discussing other MUDs we've
played. Ryzic and Midboss know one another, I reconnect them.
November 2005: They have started work on a new FF Tactics based game as FFC has been dead
for a while now. I personally witness the implementation of the mapper that
Midboss is accused of ripping off, going from a very base system in its infancy
into its final stage
Febuary 2006: My trillian chat logs show a conversation where Midboss admits to getting his
start in learning to code a while back as a result of Josh's policies on FFC.

The ONLY possible way Midboss could have had access to that mapper code would have been
through Kaiousama, since presumably Kai was the only real common link between Runter and
Midboss, and the only common link by which that code could have been transfered. However,
unless the absolute LAST thing that Kai did on FFC was implement that mapper and run, that
code never appeared in FFC, and I find it highly unlikely that two months prior there would
have been a round of major changes that involved the map, followed by the implementation of
an entirely new system. The fact that this code doesn't have this 'new' mapper should be
plenty testament to that. And even considering the possibility that Kai had this code, there
was no overlap between Midboss as even a builder on FFC and Kai having anything to do with
the MUD. Considering the possibility that the code could have been put in the MUD in the
month between my copy and Kai leaving, Midboss never had access to the FFC code. Considering
the possibility that Midboss for some reason had access to the FFC code, it wasn't until after
his split with Josh over in-game issues that he had any interest in learning to code, so even
with access there would have been nothing for him to have done with that. Assuming he stole
the entire codebase, why bother taking a stock ROM, ripping pretty much everything out, and
starting from scratch on a new FFT based codebase if you already had a copy of the game you
were basically out to mimic? Why ONLY use one aspect of code from the FFC codebase when
everything else is being written from scratch? Out of the 25 snippets he has written and
released here, why release ONE snippet that is someone else's code and trying to take credit
for it when there's both plenty already there to credit his name if it were some sort of ego
trip and when he has demonstrated the clear ability to write code without the need to rip
someone else off?

There's just far too much that doesn't add up here to suggest that he would have any ability,
access, or motive to rip off your code.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 48th comment:
Votes: 0
And Hades, you can sit here and defend your buddy not knowing the truth.

But the truth is he cannot defend himself. Because I'll challenge him to go through this code and we'll see who knows how much about the code. Line for line.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 49th comment:
Votes: 0
As a matter of a fact, I was involved with Josh after he took over. Your logic doesn't prove anything. He had every opportunity to have access to the code.
06 Jun, 2009, Guest wrote in the 50th comment:
Votes: 0
Sorry Crat…. 50…. :)

*goes to refill his popcorn*
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 51st comment:
Votes: 0
I just want everyone to realize that Hades and Midboss are basically the same source for information. When one smears me it's basically coming from both. So take this "proof" with a grain of salt.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 52nd comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
As a matter of a fact, I was involved with Josh after he took over. Your logic doesn't prove anything. He had every opportunity to have access to the code.


Are you suggesting that Josh let a whole bunch of people have access to the code? I'm actually not quite sure I grasp what you are getting at here, so I'm trying to clarify…
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 53rd comment:
Votes: 0
Samson said:
Sorry Crat…. 50…. :)

*goes to refill his popcorn*


Glad someone is enjoying it :)

Has to be nice to be a spectator instead of being in the middle of it, huh?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 54th comment:
Votes: 0
Hades_Kane said:
Runter said:
As a matter of a fact, I was involved with Josh after he took over. Your logic doesn't prove anything. He had every opportunity to have access to the code.


Are you suggesting that Josh let a whole bunch of people have access to the code? I'm actually not quite sure I grasp what you are getting at here, so I'm trying to clarify…



I'm saying that I was involved with Josh at one point. He came to me for code advice. He may have even been the one that got this update to the automapper. I even had an OLBC email address.
Your timelines don't prove anything .The code could have been setting somewhere waiting to be installed.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 55th comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
I just want everyone to realize that Hades and Midboss are basically the same source for information. When one smears me it's basically coming from both. So take this "proof" with a grain of salt.


If you are trying to suggest that I'm lying, my timeline of events is purposely incorrect, or that I'm just trying to smear you, then I must say that any small ounce of doubt I might have had as to whether or not I'm defending a code thief would be promptly squashed.

I'm laying out the evidence as I see it, and if I have something wrong with what I'm presenting, then I'd be glad to be corrected.
06 Jun, 2009, Guest wrote in the 56th comment:
Votes: 0
Hades_Kane said:
Glad someone is enjoying it :)

Has to be nice to be a spectator instead of being in the middle of it, huh?


My timing is usually pretty bad, and you guys have been going at it fast and furious. And yes, it's nice to be on the sidelines for a change. Much less stressful, and even somewhat refreshing to be totally clueless about what's going on here.
06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 57th comment:
Votes: 0
Psst, Samson. The name change.

Can I has it?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 58th comment:
Votes: 0
We're going to go ahead and dispel some of this myth about me caring about someone having the functionality of an automapper. I'm quiting FFC right now, and here's the code that Midboss wants so desperately to take credit for:

http://www.mudbytes.net/index.php?a=past...

All I care about is some jackass trying to take credit. I was planning on writing a decent snippet to release to the community. Not this old piece of crap.

And yes, this snippet is trash. And it's embarassing that it was something that I wrote it. That's why I wanted it removed. Not to keep it off the market.


I'm just about flabbergasted by all this.
06 Jun, 2009, Guest wrote in the 59th comment:
Votes: 0
Midboss said:
Psst, Samson. The name change.

Can I has it?


I'm gonna leave that to Davion or Kiasyn. Seems like something that should probably be thought on a bit more first before someone does it.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 60th comment:
Votes: 0
Samson said:
Hades_Kane said:
Glad someone is enjoying it :)

Has to be nice to be a spectator instead of being in the middle of it, huh?


My timing is usually pretty bad, and you guys have been going at it fast and furious. And yes, it's nice to be on the sidelines for a change. Much less stressful, and even somewhat refreshing to be totally clueless about what's going on here.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever been involved in a thread here that I've been constantly refreshing :p

When it boils down to it, I'm confident that Midboss isn't a code thief, but I also don't think that Runter is trying to be malicious about anything, so I'm a bit clueless myself. :p

All I have to go by is the 3+ years of friendship (and MUD developing relationship) I've had with Midboss (and personally seeing his disdain for code written by others, and how many times he's taken a small, poorly written system and completely reworked it overnight), and the dates that I've gathered crawling through chat logs and MUD backups.

At this point, it doesn't look like anything is going to get settled… I don't know. But I'm not the type of person sit idly by when I feel like a friend of mine is being accused of something I'm sure he didn't do.
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