18 Dec, 2009, Raj wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
Hi Everyone,

I am looking for someone with code programming/scripting experience. I am not the best at coding/scripting though I am learning fast, but I would still like to have some other coders to help me as I am not as good with it yet.

We are working on a space themed mud and need help with making the space system, starship movement/navigation/scans/reports, space combat/defense, ground combat vehicles, atmospheric vehicles, and other related things. We already have full details and documents of exactly what kind of system we want and just need coding/scripting help to implement it. If there are people interested, please contact me through my e-mail goodraju@gmail.com

The current codebase that we have decided to use is CoffeeMud, though I am open to changing the codebase if anyone has any suggestions for another base that would work better for a space themed game. Moo/Smaug/Rom/etc..

We already have builders but we can always use more, so if anyone is interested in that, then you can contact me as well. Once again the e-mail is:
goodraju@gmail.com

Thanks and hope to hear from you soon!

- Raj
18 Dec, 2009, JohnnyStarr wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
You might want to clarify a few things:
1) by "coding" I assume you mean mud programming?
2) what exactly do you mean by scripting? (Ruby, Perl, Lua, etc.) ?
3) are you looking for a head-coder that can join your staff?
4) if #3 is yes, then perhaps you could clarify why someone would benefit from writing for you.
5) if #3 is no, then perhaps you could clarify why someone would benefit from writing for you.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but an incentive will go a long way towards finding help.
Best Wishes! :biggrin:
19 Dec, 2009, Raj wrote in the 3rd comment:
Votes: 0
Thanks for the reply. To clerify some things :)

1) by "coding" I assume you mean mud programming?
Yes, I mean mud programming.

2) what exactly do you mean by scripting? (Ruby, Perl, Lua, etc.) ?
Java or C related but that is actually open for suggestions. A friend of mine recommended CoffeeMud, but if the programmer has suggestions for another codebase that would work better for a space theme game then we are open to changing.

3) are you looking for a head-coder that can join your staff?
Yes if they would like to join us as a permanant member then that is good. If they would like to just help out and then be on their way to other projects, then that's also alright I guess.

4) if #3 is yes, then perhaps you could clarify why someone would benefit from writing for you.
Hmm, not exactly sure of what kinds of benefits they would be looking for.
- The programmer would be given credit for the work that they do and have the satisfaction of knowing that they played a big part in making a game from a bunch of ideas to something really good and worth investing time in.

- If the game becomes really popular and gets to a point where an income stream can be produced from it, then a share of that income.

- We can also possibly do a trade of skills if they are looking for something that we might be able to offer.

- or if nothing else then perhaps compensation in money? Though I can't say at this point about money until I discuss it with the rest of the staff. If this is the option that you choose, then you can let me know the amount and other related details and we can talk further if the rest of the current staff agrees to the terms.

- You can also just tell me what you are looking for and if it is something that we can do, then we will go for it.

Thanks, and hope that answered your questions. Feel free to ask if you need any further clerifications.

- Raj
E: goodraju@gmail.com
19 Dec, 2009, Runter wrote in the 4th comment:
Votes: 0
JohnnyStarr said:
You might want to clarify a few things:

2) what exactly do you mean by scripting? (Ruby, Perl, Lua, etc.) ?


It's no surprise that people akin scripting to programing these days. I mean, those people who use scripting languages are almost like real programmers and everything. ;)

But yeah, it's more likely these days when actually asking for a script writer in specific to be asking for someone with experience within a specific development universe. I.e. builders on a mud with experience writing scripts for quests, mobile interaction, etc etc.

He is just a little confused what the exact differences are in script languages and "actual" programming languages. Or perhaps he just means he is open to any language. Including scripting languages.
19 Dec, 2009, Raj wrote in the 5th comment:
Votes: 0
Yes, based on that brief explanation, I am open to any languages. I need someone to help with the actual programming as well as scripting for the kinds of things you mentioned. The head programmer is really needed at this point since I am not the best in programming. I am a fast learner though so I am sure that if I had someone with more experience in programming to watch and bounce ideas from, then I can pick it up pretty quickly…
19 Dec, 2009, JohnnyStarr wrote in the 6th comment:
Votes: 0
I appreciate that you want to write a space / sci-fi based mud.
SWR which is a SMAUG based mud, which has a bunch of cool stuff as it is based on Star Wars.
I imagine changing things to suit your personal needs might be easier than say ROM or SMAUG.

However, these servers are all written in C. Even when you find someone to help write your code, you would
want to understand how things work, and C can be very difficult to learn. IMO, C isn't a bad place to start though.
I think it helps you appreciate easier languages.
19 Dec, 2009, Mabus wrote in the 7th comment:
Votes: 0
Raj said:
- If the game becomes really popular and gets to a point where an income stream can be produced from it, then a share of that income.

JohnnyStarr said:
I appreciate that you want to write a space / sci-fi based mud.
SWR which is a SMAUG based mud, which has a bunch of cool stuff as it is based on Star Wars.

I just wanted to point out that these two things do not go well together. If the OP wants to make a game with the potential for "an income stream" SWR would not be a good choice. I'll skip a stock SWR code discussion, as that could go into some negative territory I would rather not tread.

I have experience with CoffeeMUD, and while it could be coded to do what you want it would take some major time. There are whole systems and sub-systems that would need not only coded, but first designed (not just the "idea" phase), then coded, then tested, then debugged, and then recoded. You are looking at 3 months to 2 years (as an estimate) just to get a decent space system with the features you have listed. Post to RentACoder and see what kind of bids you would get for that sort of time investment; Likely it will be much more then a possible income at some intangible later date.

Is it possible? Yes. I do not want to dissuade you from your effort, as decent space MUDs are hard to come by (imo).

I wish you the greatest success.
19 Dec, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 8th comment:
Votes: 0
Raj said:
4) if #3 is yes, then perhaps you could clarify why someone would benefit from writing for you.
Hmm, not exactly sure of what kinds of benefits they would be looking for.


As Mabus suggests, some of what you require means that you need a fairly well-experienced person onboard.
Such a person, like a ronin from Kurasawa's The Seven Samurai, would have to do it for some reason other
than glory and money. This is because such a person could just make their own mud. They would be working
for you basically because they like you.

Thus far you're coming off as likable and that's a great start. There is a nonzero chance, I think, someone
might just rise from their meditative pose and lend their years of skill and experience to you because you
seem an all right guy. Just please remember, that's pretty much all you've got. The other stuff you're mentioning
is about as attractive as a promise of all the millet you can eat to a Samurai.

I do wish you the best of luck. While you're waiting for your gunslinger, I suggest you read this:

http://dead-souls.net/articles/newcomer....

-Crat
19 Dec, 2009, Idealiad wrote in the 9th comment:
Votes: 0
I think the TinyMUD servers can be used commercially, and there's mush HSpace for the space part. The downside is you'd need to code all the other game systems, which mush usually doesn't have out of the box.
19 Dec, 2009, JohnnyStarr wrote in the 10th comment:
Votes: 0
Mabus said:
I just wanted to point out that these two things do not go well together. If the OP wants to make a game with the potential for "an income stream" SWR would not be a good choice.


The only reason I brought up SWR is because the OP mentioned possibly using ROM/SMAUG/ETC. I know very
little about SWR, so I'm sure that it isn't the best. The cool thing about starting with something feature rich is that
you can get it off the ground fairly quick, and you can learn as you go. Otherwise, if you want things to be 100%
perfect, depending on your free time and experience, it very well might be years before you get anything close
to a working game system.
19 Dec, 2009, Kayle wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
JohnnyStarr said:
The only reason I brought up SWR is because the OP mentioned possibly using ROM/SMAUG/ETC. I know very
little about SWR, so I'm sure that it isn't the best. The cool thing about starting with something feature rich is that
you can get it off the ground fairly quick, and you can learn as you go. Otherwise, if you want things to be 100%
perfect, depending on your free time and experience, it very well might be years before you get anything close
to a working game system.


I maintain SWRFUSS, I wouldn't recommend SWR (or SWRFUSS) for the sheer fact that it's so out of date, and flawed at the core of it's space code. The code works, but the math is all entirely wrong. The future of SWRFUSS (and really the entire FUSS Project) is entirely up in the air at the moment so all current work is at a standstill until something gets figured out.)
20 Dec, 2009, Raj wrote in the 12th comment:
Votes: 0
First off, thanks to everyone for your replies. I am working on learning how to code as well. I do know a bit of C and Java but nothing to shake a stick at. If there are any recommendations that you have for where I should refer to learn more about it, then please let me know.

Honestly, i am not going into this project thinking that I am going to make money out of this game and that I would be able to pay the staff and have an income stream etc. Money is not my motivation factor for taking on this project. I just want a really nicely done space theme game that can be easy to learn and fun to play, with some depth in the kinds of things that players can do to make it more interesting. I have played a few different ones with a space theme, and although they were nicely done and had a fair amount of things to offer, I still feel that there should be more, and that certain things that should be there were just, not there…

Mabus, thanks for the information and encouragement. I am willing to put in time and effort to learn how to code with CoffeeMUD. I agree, this is definately not going to be up and running in a couple of weeks. Even if I knew all the coding that I needed to know, it would still take me and the rest of the builders a good amount of time to build the worlds, items, descriptions, etc. I have been playing different muds for a good while now all written using different languages and codebases. I tried out Moo code and Smaug, but found that CoffeeMUD seems to have the easiest ways of building. A good number of general things are already done so the builders won't have to worry about making special things, they would just have to modify existing room types and items to make it into what we want. Coding in all the other things that we want into it would be the harder part due to the lack of experience with programming. Since you have experience with CoffeeMUD, can you perhaps give me some pointers on how to go about this and if you have any particular reference materials that I can use such as some good coding related e-books or sites. I honestly don't know if I can afford to actually hire someone to code, I would probably use that as a last resort if all else fails and my brain fries in the process of learning how to code.. haha.. But yeah, I will keep that in mind…

Cratylus that link was very helpful and gave me some insight on how the mud community works. I do agree with you, and now that I think about it. All the current people who are willing to help with the building are good friends that I have made through other muds. I respect them all and we have become really good friends over the years. I am a very nice and friendly person who is really easy to get along with and fun to be with, always there for his friends anytime, anywhere, anything. Not just friends, sometimes even people I barely know.

Yeah, the other stuff that I was mentioning was basically whatever came to mind at the moment. I didn't know what to answer to that question actually, so I just thought up some probable things. I will wait for this person to rise from their meditative pose and lend their years of skills and experiences to me and my friends. It would definately be a great asset to have someone like that on our team as we can use all the skills and experiences that we can get. Not to mention, the amount of things that we would learn from the person would benefit us all in the long run.

Thanks for the best wishes, and I hope that I can make it happen. And once again, if there are any other suggestions or recommendations that come to mind please do let me know. Thanks.

- Raj
E: goodraju@gmail.com
20 Dec, 2009, Mabus wrote in the 13th comment:
Votes: 0
Raj said:
Mabus, thanks for the information and encouragement. I am willing to put in time and effort to learn how to code with CoffeeMUD. I agree, this is definately not going to be up and running in a couple of weeks. Even if I knew all the coding that I needed to know, it would still take me and the rest of the builders a good amount of time to build the worlds, items, descriptions, etc.

You are welcome. All games take time. Over 3 years on my perpetual-alpha project right now. You have to do it because you like to, and because it is a part of you.

Raj said:
Since you have experience with CoffeeMUD, can you perhaps give me some pointers on how to go about this and if you have any particular reference materials that I can use such as some good coding related e-books or sites. I honestly don't know if I can afford to actually hire someone to code, I would probably use that as a last resort if all else fails and my brain fries in the process of learning how to code.. haha.. But yeah, I will keep that in mind…

Hmm…

The ships from the outside would only be a GenMobilePortal, though I would extend that into GenShipPortals and make them implement a SpaceShip interface. Handy for "instanceof" checks later when you need to move/interact them. Set them so that people cannot pick them up. Likely lockable, though later you can code keypad locks (or even script them now). You can then move the "ship" to its own area when flying, and place it at the landing pad (or similar) when docked.

I would likely make each inside ship its own area. The rooms, the genPortal link-back to the GenMobilePortal, and possibly rooms all around the ship. Those "around" rooms would require a "Space" Locale, which would be similar to the Locale "UnderWater". You could define the floating, lack of air and other affects from being in this Locale there and in the StdMOB code.

Space travel is a strange creature. I can easily see it done with a x,y,z array (allowing it to be almost limitless in all directions, using a "central planet's star" as your 0,0,0 and setting the other stars from there), but I am sure others here would have some very specific proposals on how best to accomplish this. Do the planet's orbit? Do the stars wander? Are each of these x,y,z coordinates actually "sectors" that have their own smaller-scale x,y,z array? As I have not worked on a space themed game for quite a while none of this is present in the front of my mind. This will all need designed and coded so that your "ship" can know where it is.

That ought to keep you busy for a while. Keep us informed.
21 Dec, 2009, Runter wrote in the 14th comment:
Votes: 0
My only advice: Model only what you need to model. Unfortunately space systems are a bit unforgiving for poor representation. What many people do is simply model offsets based on central points at landmark locations. Like 10, 5, 20KM off planet at 2930.33000.30. It gets more complicated to represent this way when you're trying to model complex physics such as gravity with vectors. You may look into spherical coordinate based system. Needless to say, you don't want to simply use a large 3d array. This type of representation with such a possibly large data set will potentially cause you some issues with resource hogging.
22 Dec, 2009, Raj wrote in the 15th comment:
Votes: 0
This is the kind of system I am thinking of, but it may change. I am liking your idea about Planets/Moons/Space stations etc to orbit central stars, though that may be a bit of work.. Going to put in Gravity wells so that should make some interesting things for people.

Going in a direction from the Galactic Core.
15x15x15 x, y, z coordinate grid = 1 Sector
10 Sectors = 1 Lightyear
100 Lightyears = 1 Zone. (1000 Sectors)
500 Zones = 1 Quadrant. (50000 Lightyears, or 500000 Sectors)
2 Quadrants = Galactic Diameter. (1000 Zones, or 100000 Lightyears, or 1000000 Sectors)
4 Quadrant Cube = Galaxy. (1000000000 Zones, 500000 Trillion Sectors

Now this makes for a really really large space but not all of the sectors and other things would be loaded. The sectors that have the home planet and systems of the multiple races and things would be there at the area I want to build them. The rest of the stuff would be generated if someone goes out of Charted space and into uncharted space. Random planets, stars, asteroids, and other such things can get generated as a ship moves into the sector. Also options to modify the above numbers to make them smaller or change them around would be nice. If i want to make five sectors equal to one lightyear or whatever else.

As an example of the numbering system:
If you are at the galactic Core your Galactic Coordinates would be 0, 0, 0.
moving East or west from the Core would increase or decrease your X axis number accordingly.

Moving Straight East 1000 sectors would change the galactic Location to Q-Beta/Gamma, (Since it would be on the line of both of them.) Zone 1, 0, 0, Sector 1000, 0, 0
West would be Q-Alpha/Delta, Zone -1, 0, 0, Sector -1000, 0, 0
North from the Core would be Q-Alpha/Beta, Zone 0, 1, 0, Sector 0, 1000, 0
South would be Q-Gamma/Delta, Zone 0, -1, 0, Sector 0, -1000, 0
Up would be Q-UGCL, Zone 0, 0, 1, Sector 0, 0, 1000 (Since when going up or down from the galactic core would share all four quadrants the UGCL just means Upper Galactic Core Line and the LGCL would be Lower Galactic Core Line.)
and Down would be Q-LGCL, Zone 0, 0, -1, Sector 0 , 0, -1000

Some Random distance Northwest and Up would be Q-Alpha, Zone -5, 1, 3, Sector -5000, 1000, 3000

So there would be 500000 sectors in a straight line N, E, S, W, U, D, from the Core to the edge of the galaxy. Since everything will be cubed that makes for a huge place. If I am confusing, then feel free to ask for clerifications.

- Ability to Name the Sectors, Zones, and Quadrants.
- Special Zones or Sectors for Hostiles and other Enemy Factions.
- Charted and Uncharted Space. The places where the game's Factions, Alliances, Races, Homeworlds, are considered as charted. Anything a certain distance outside of these areas would be considered uncharted space.
- Maybe Hyperspace or a different but similar concept

I am not sure how we would manage the moving planets and things though. For example if you jump to sector 1 where earth is supposed to be, but Earth is in some other sector… wouldn't that make things a bit too confusing? Or is there a way to do this that I haven't seen yet.

Can you give me more information on how the spherical based coordinate system would work?

Any ideas on what to do for the Galactic Rim? I mean, some players if they ever manage to get to the Galactic Rim, or to the Galactic core, what can we put there. For the core we can just put massive gravitational field, large black holes etc probably. Not sure what we can put at the galactic rim to prevent people from wanting to go past it. Any thoughts on that? Thanks.

- Raj
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