17 May, 2007, syn wrote in the 21st comment:
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unless its a different kikyo :)
18 May, 2007, Guest wrote in the 22nd comment:
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Skol said:
Kikyo, someone's saying unnice things about you on mudconnector, might go look.


What? There's someone being mean on TMC? Tell me it's not so!
18 May, 2007, kikyo wrote in the 23rd comment:
Votes: 0
Nah it was me and I was being blamed for using my backdoors to a code they stold of mine a dbna code that is highly modified. It has some snippets from here and WOTC. and some shit Me and my coder coded in but yeah I hacked them once telling them They need to put our names in the greeting and I wont mind them using it since I am redoing my mud from dbsc. but yeah thier owner said sorry when I told them I didn't like the nasty little note they wrote to me through email I told them that I haven't been able to access muds in the past 4 days or so and that I wasn't the only one on my mud who knew the backdoors all of my highly trusted imms knew them.

So yeah…. But anywayz how would I get a mud to startup using cygwin the dbsc helpfile said to use nohup ./startup & or ./startup but when I do that it says that is not a command file or dir. Help plz
18 May, 2007, Conner wrote in the 24th comment:
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Does your startup file have an extension under windows? startup.bat, for example?
19 May, 2007, kikyo wrote in the 25th comment:
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How would I find out?
19 May, 2007, Zeno wrote in the 26th comment:
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…Check the filename?
19 May, 2007, Conner wrote in the 27th comment:
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When I use windows, I usually find Windows Explorer especially useful for this sort of thing. :wink:
20 May, 2007, Brinson wrote in the 28th comment:
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The #1 tip I can give to someone using Cygwin is to install ALL packages immediately just in case you need them.

And I concur, VMs are much more fun. Also Microsoft has a VM software in beta. I might download it when I have time to have fun with it. Beta testers for it have a chance of winning a 360.
20 May, 2007, Tyche wrote in the 29th comment:
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Brinson said:
The #1 tip I can give to someone using Cygwin is to install ALL packages immediately just in case you need them.


No that's just plain stupid.
20 May, 2007, Conner wrote in the 30th comment:
Votes: 0
Tyche said:
Brinson said:
The #1 tip I can give to someone using Cygwin is to install ALL packages immediately just in case you need them.


No that's just plain stupid.


Ok, I'll bite, how/why is that "just plain stupid"?? If you download and install a package that you don't need what have you hurt other than a bit of wasted disk space? If you failed to download/install something that you did need, on the other hand, you're going to have to figure out what you're missing and then go fetch it anyway.
21 May, 2007, Brinson wrote in the 31st comment:
Votes: 0
Conner said:
Tyche said:
Brinson said:
The #1 tip I can give to someone using Cygwin is to install ALL packages immediately just in case you need them.


No that's just plain stupid.


Ok, I'll bite, how/why is that "just plain stupid"?? If you download and install a package that you don't need what have you hurt other than a bit of wasted disk space? If you failed to download/install something that you did need, on the other hand, you're going to have to figure out what you're missing and then go fetch it anyway.


That's my thoughts on the matter. And most people probably don't know too much about linux packages if they're using cygwin. And, I mean, a full cygwin install doesn't use that much space when you see the size of HDs nowadays.
21 May, 2007, Conner wrote in the 32nd comment:
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Exactly, most computers anymore are coming with 80-160GB hard drives and, according to the Cygwin FAQ, a full installation is over 800MB (smaller than most popular windows games these days).

Oh, and regarding what Cygwin is an emulator of, according to Cygwin Information and Installation:
Quote
Cygwin is a Linux-like environment for Windows. It consists of two parts:
  • A DLL (cygwin1.dll) which acts as a Linux API emulation layer providing substantial Linux API functionality.

  • A collection of tools which provide Linux look and feel.


  • Which certainly sounds to me like it's intended rather specifically to be a linux emulator rather than merely a posix emulator. Maybe others read that differently than I do though? :tongue:
    21 May, 2007, Tyche wrote in the 33rd comment:
    Votes: 0
    Cygwin follows the Posix and Single Unix Specification whenever possible. If there is ambiguity in the specs then Linux practices are followed. Just for example the Cygwin versions of fcntl, fopen, freopen, open, creat, unlink, ioctl, fscanf, fwscanf, scanf, vfscanf, vfwscanf, vscanf, vsscanf, vswscanf, waitpid, waitid, kill, strptime follow the Posix specification and not Linux practices.

    The front page was changed a few years ago removing Posix and Unix with Linux in spite of the objections of many of the developers. Cygwin is owned and sold by Redhat. Redhat sells Linux. I imagine there is some sort of business reason. Nevertheless the development practices preferring Posix/SUS over Linux are still followed.

    Obviously this results in a number of questions about binary compatibility, and even more about why many Linux applications cannot even be compiled. Cygwin uses newlib and not glibc which contains hundreds of functions which are not Posix. The most common application you cannot run on Cygwin that I see bandied about on mud forums would be Valgrind.

    For practical purposes, if I assumed the user was running a Diku mud, then they likely don't have much work to do since the mud wasn't originally written on Linux anyway and when these late muds were ported to Linux in the mid 90's much of that work was done. Of course some later Diku derivatives have added code that is not Posix compatible.

    Sure I consider downloading 800 megabytes to be a time consuming waste of time, when about 40 mb is all you need. Now that's bzipped binaries, after expanding, installation and running the post configuration scripts you are using 2-3 gig. The bzips are kept around for reinstallation. Secondly there have been known conflicts in the past with pre and post configuration scripts. Because of this the recommended way to install packages like Cygwin/X is to install base Cygwin and then X. Thirdly, every time you run setup it will select packages for update which you aren't using requiring you to deselect them and more wasted download time and space. Lastly it's trivial to go to the webpage and type the file name, command or library name you are missing in order to find the package you need to install. It's like recommending all Debian users type "apt-get -y install *". Yes I consider it stupid and lame.

    The only thing stupider would be telling someone to type "make clean" to compile a mud for the first time. ;-)

    Now the only packages the OP needs are cygwin base, gcc, binutils, make and probably tcsh if the mud has cshell scripts. Obviously some muds will have other library requirements like zlib, sql libs, etc. One of the editor packages (vim, nano, etc.) would also be useful if one doesn't have a Windows editor that preserves Unix style newlines and tabs.
    21 May, 2007, Guest wrote in the 34th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Conner said:
    Ok, I'll bite, how/why is that "just plain stupid"?? If you download and install a package that you don't need what have you hurt other than a bit of wasted disk space? If you failed to download/install something that you did need, on the other hand, you're going to have to figure out what you're missing and then go fetch it anyway.


    You've answered your own question here whether you realize it or not. Suppose every last user who ever installs Cygwin decided to do what you suggest. That's several hundred megabytes each, multiplied by however many millions of people have done this. I suspect it would hurt someone's bandwidth bill somewhere. Just because you have the memory, drive space, and connection to waste doesn't mean you actually should waste it. At least we know where Redhat should send the bill now.
    22 May, 2007, Conner wrote in the 35th comment:
    Votes: 0
    Tyche:
    I wasn't aware of any of that background on cygwin, only what I could find on their site. I don't use cygwin myself at all, the one time I tried, I decided it was easier and more useful to set up a box running linux instead.
    Ok, conflicts I can understand.. it's too bad they don't post to the web site which packages are known to conflict with which. As for time/bandwidth/disk space waste, well, that's great if yuo know what you need to begin with, but doing a basic install and then trying to figure out why you're getting errors (because you're missing a package) is a pain, on a good day. :sad:

    Samson:
    Yes, by all means, Redhat should be concerned with folks wasting bandwidth by downloading the 800 MB wotrh of everything for Cygwin when they could get away with downloading a fraction of that, but they certainly don't seem to be concerned about insisting we all download multi-gig DVD/CD ISOs every three or four months when they release a new version of Fedora Core, so it sure feels like they aren't nearly as concerned as they could/should be.
    22 May, 2007, kiasyn wrote in the 36th comment:
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    ummm apt-get dist-upgrade.. or something ^^
    22 May, 2007, kikyo wrote in the 37th comment:
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    Umm so since ./startup doesn't work how would I start it up?
    22 May, 2007, Tyche wrote in the 38th comment:
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    kikyo said:
    Umm so since ./startup doesn't work how would I start it up?


    Umm you'd probably want to fix it. That's what I'd do.
    Surely you followed earlier hints given elsewhere by commenting out the ulimit command and fixing the path to the mud, right? And you've also installed tcsh so you can run cshell scripts, right? So what was the result of those changes then?
    22 May, 2007, kikyo wrote in the 39th comment:
    Votes: 0
    So I uncomment some things in the startup file and ./startup worked but it create errors were it won't loadup any Idea what I would need to uncomment and comment out I am trying to get up a basic dbsc 2.5.2 codebase running (if that helps out)
    22 May, 2007, syn wrote in the 40th comment:
    Votes: 0
    please provide the errors your actually getting, otherwise there is little anyone can do to help.
    20.0/52