16 Apr, 2013, GSamurai wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
Hi MUDbyte(er?)s:
I am creating a new MUD based in 2.4b* ROM.
I have the basic files, I've even managed to run a local version of the mud.
I've got a few questions, and the main purpose of my post (and actually my having registered here) is to ask you all about some of the conventions that might save me some time in establishing my new ROM mud.

My background:I've learned basic C before, and am willing to brush up on it.
I also know some html, java, CSS, so I know I can do this with either enough time, alternately with some guidance it would save some time.
I have built areas for a couple MUD's before, but none worth noting,
and none in ROM. I have played through a couple ROM based MUD's though, so I am familiar with the game itself.
I shouldn't have too much trouble finding a host but of course I want advice on anything that comes to mind.

The project:
-I would like to do some serious creative writing, as in I would like to at least repaint if not redesign the stock areas, mobs, and add some races, classes, & ansi color.
-I have a willing builders/English majors who want to help with the creative aspects, but the coding and management are all mine to master.
-I am going to leave it as a fantasy hack n slash, I'm not looking to do PVP anytime soon.
-I would like to have a set up where a lot of the building could be done with an OLC, or something else that will allow solid editing from within the client, so minimal SVN stuff if possible, I'm not familiar with mySQL or anything useful but I understand I will likely need to learn these skills.

Current issues I am dealing with:
-I am looking for general start-up tips, or specific ones:
-I'm looking for any great GUI tools that will work to help me dig into the databases.
–right now I'm using notepad and I'm getting a huge mess, how do I at least get these files to display as code?
-I am looking to add the basic 16 colors to my MUD asap.
-hosting options?
-I want to add in another 6 races

misc:
I've noticed a lot of the help files are all over the areas, I'd really like to put them all in one area specifically for help files.
same goes for some other similar things, is there some reason why they are scattered all over like that?

Thanks,
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
GSamurai
16 Apr, 2013, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
I am creating a new MUD based in 2.4b* ROM.


Just why ? IMHO one of the only reason you would still use ROM is because you maintain a mud for historical/childhood memory. Starting one in ROM nowadays, with all the flaws ROM is riddled with. I really see no reason (not to mention you should use the cleaned C++ version with at the very least)
Help yourself, pick another codebase.
16 Apr, 2013, GSamurai wrote in the 3rd comment:
Votes: 0
That's pretty funny, I was just telling my girlfriend about another coder friend who, if I'd asked them for help, they would have crapped on ROM 2.4.
So basically I sort of expected that, I'm really open to advice, I chose ROM purely because I found the character customization system very decent,
as well you hit the nail on the head about the 'childhood nostalgia' thing; My first MUD was ROM based.
That, and I cannot remember which one I have actually used before.
I like fantasy and the feel of that specific code is decent. I chose 2.4 because the website I had read said that was the newest one Free one, but I
was definitely looking at an archived website, and I have not come across a newer one; Also this is the first advice I've asked for on the project.
So, literally the only changes I've made to the basic downloaded package were to make myself an admin character and boot up the MUD.
Fun times.
So yeah back to the matter at hand:
Would you recommend any particular codebase?
Would you know where I can get the new version of ROM?
Keep in mind, I have not put much time in yet
and no suggestion, if you have decent reasoning, would be poorly received.
Thanks. :alien:
16 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 4th comment:
Votes: 0
Just explore around the codebase section here. Personally, of the Dikurivatives out there, I prefer the Smaug family, but there are plenty of different choices available.

If *I* were starting a new diku-style MUD, I'd pick one of the more recently updated codebases. Most of these things were written in the 1990's, and won't compile cleanly on any kind of semi-modern system, let alone a 64-bit machine.

If you don't have a lot of coding experience, and you're going to be the only coder… I *highly* suggest taking a serious look at the LPMUD family. An LPMUD is a whole different animal… all the game code is written in an interpreted language called LPC, and you really never have to deal with the driver source. The folks at lpmuds.net have several driver+mudlib bundles that pretty much work out of the box….

But, as others here will POUNCE on me for suggesting a non-DikuMUD, you should know that building on an LPMUD is very different than on a DikuMUD. On the plus side, *everything* in the game is an object with LPC code. That means, you can literally make anything DO anything you want, and any builder can do so, live… without having to recompile or reboot. On the minus side, you HAVE to. While the Dead Souls mudlib does have a form of OLC command, it's not as robust as what you'd find in something like SmaugFUSS.

Still, it might be worth taking a few hours to look at the other side. Until you invest some time, there's no reason to NOT explore your options.
16 Apr, 2013, GSamurai wrote in the 5th comment:
Votes: 0
Very thoughtful reply, thank you. This potentially addresses a couple issues I might have had.
I will leave this thread open, hopefully it gets some more input, but depending on how I find the new base I might have to shift over to the correct forum.
All in all glad I asked.
Especially since I only know windows, this might be a better option.
16 Apr, 2013, GSamurai wrote in the 6th comment:
Votes: 0
ok so after about 7 hours of reading I`ve started an LP, I`m not going back to ROM 2.4,
this is a lot better for what I'm going to do.
I'm not going to sleep for days now this is awesome!
Thanks guys
G
16 Apr, 2013, Nathan wrote in the 7th comment:
Votes: 0
Are you using Windows?

If so, use notepad++ (http://notepad-plus-plus.org/). It's a much better text editor than notepad
Also, could have gotten a precompiled ROM executable for Windows (http://www.gammon.com.au/downloads/dlrom...) – of course you'd be sacrificing the ability to easily recompile –
and a GUI area editor (http://www.gammon.com.au/downloads/dlare...) pretty easily.

In any case, LP is probably a less troublesome choice, so good luck with that. :grinning:
16 Apr, 2013, arholly wrote in the 8th comment:
Votes: 0
If you are using Windows, I'd recommend Sublime Text 2.
16 Apr, 2013, Igabod wrote in the 9th comment:
Votes: 0
you said you know java too. I'd check out coffeemud at least once too. You won't have to learn a new language and it has some really interesting capabilities. You can build for the mud with an internet browser rather than using in-game commands which is why I suggested it. Your builders won't have to learn a bunch of commands, they just need an internet browser.
16 Apr, 2013, Nathan wrote in the 10th comment:
Votes: 0
arholly said:
If you are using Windows, I'd recommend Sublime Text 2.


Sublime Text 2 is shareware, though, in some sense. I have it installed on my computer since it's evaluation version isn't time limited, but I wonder whether anyone should support a guy who thinks you should pay $70 for a license to a TEXT EDITOR. Although it might be worth more than an ordinary text editor for the cross platform aspect, that still seems utterly ridiculous. Especially when Notepad++ is free.
16 Apr, 2013, khyldes wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
Most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Wow.

Nathan said:
arholly said:
If you are using Windows, I'd recommend Sublime Text 2.


Sublime Text 2 is shareware, though, in some sense. I have it installed on my computer since it's evaluation version isn't time limited, but I wonder whether anyone should support a guy who thinks you should pay $70 for a license to a TEXT EDITOR. Although it might be worth more than an ordinary text editor for the cross platform aspect, that still seems utterly ridiculous. Especially when Notepad++ is free.
17 Apr, 2013, Runter wrote in the 12th comment:
Votes: 0
Nathan said:
arholly said:
If you are using Windows, I'd recommend Sublime Text 2.


Sublime Text 2 is shareware, though, in some sense. I have it installed on my computer since it's evaluation version isn't time limited, but I wonder whether anyone should support a guy who thinks you should pay $70 for a license to a TEXT EDITOR. Although it might be worth more than an ordinary text editor for the cross platform aspect, that still seems utterly ridiculous. Especially when Notepad++ is free.



It's worth 70 dollars and our office has bought 20 or so copies. If you don't want to pay for it, just continue to use it for free? It seems like a really good deal for people who think 70 dollars is too much for a fantastic product.
17 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 13th comment:
Votes: 0
What does it do that the free version of Visual Studio doesn't do?

I'll admit the default light-on-dark-grey theme looks much nicer than the default dark-on-white Visual Studio Express 2010 uses, but I've not tried to change that lately, so perhaps they also have theme support now.
17 Apr, 2013, Idealiad wrote in the 14th comment:
Votes: 0
Well it's more of an editor (notwithstanding that most pro editors these days are 'IDEs in waiting') than an IDE, so it appeals to a different taste I think.
17 Apr, 2013, Runter wrote in the 15th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
What does it do that the free version of Visual Studio doesn't do?


I think this is missing the point. I don't care if it does the same thing. I care which one does it better, saves me the most time, and makes my work more enjoyable. Sublime text has done that for me. I used it for free for some time, as can anyone here without restriction. Complaining about the pricing is a bit ridiculous in my view. Just keep using it for free, or choose to support the developer for a fantastic product. $70 for a lifetime license isn't too much to ask for a tool I use hours every single day out of choice.

Last time I checked their education, government and non-profit options available, but you have to contact their support.
17 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 16th comment:
Votes: 0
Ah, well, there's the point that was unclear (to me) then.

I didn't think continuing to use it for free was a legitimate option. It looked like you were allowed to try it for some time, and then would NEED to purchase it to continue using it. I didn't realize it was actual shareware, as opposed to the more common limited trials we see now. (I think it's a case of me not believing it, rather than not reading that it was so.)

Ok, so free vs free… sure, use whichever one works for you. :)

(I agree that $70 is NOT a bad price for a good editor. I paid much more than that for the Amiga version of Word Perfect, which was pretty wretched back in the day. I still miss my old faithful EasyScript64 from the Commodore 64.)
17 Apr, 2013, khyldes wrote in the 17th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
I prefer the Smaug family


Why do you prefer Smaug? I could never really get into it when I've tried to play before but it seems so popular that I assume I'm missing something. Is there a particular version that you prefer? Ive seen Sfuss, LoP, AFK, etc. They all seem so.. confusing. Right now we're using LuminariMUD, but if a new player experience would be better had with something else, I'm all ears.
18 Apr, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 18th comment:
Votes: 0
The main reason I prefer the smaug family is that of the Dikurivatives I've tried, it feels the closest to 2nd edition AD&D, in terms of combat mechanics. In that, it's stayed closer to the original DikuMUD feel.

Two things grate on me with ROM, right out of the gate. First, I can't stand the scaled experience system. It looks good on paper, but in practice it makes everything feel much more generic. "Oh look, I killed the Overlord of Hell, and got 50xp… just like I got for killing a fluffy bunny in the starting village."

Another is the skill point-buy system. I dislike skill based systems, as they ALSO tend to make gameplay generic. If you don't limit them along class boundaries, then everyone buys the best min/max combination for soloing, and there's never a need to group for anything. Why bring a mage along to cast fly or invisibility, if you can learn it on your fighter? If you DO limit the skill trees so they're rigidly fixed along class lines… why try to make it skill based at all? In that case, you're still class based, but you're trying to fudge it.

As for new player experience…. I HATE mud schools. Hate them with a passion. Every game I've ever seen with one, it's just a horrible zone of cardboard cutouts, put there to ensure you have the patience to plod through it by the numbers, so you can escape into the real game world to have fun. My MUD starts players in a tavern, and as soon as they walk out the door, they're playing the game.

If you feel the need for a tutorial, integrate it into the game world as some optional quests or something. Don't isolate it off in some candyland, and especially don't force people who already know how to play games like this to yawn through it.

For full disclosure.. my own DikuMUD is an original DikuMUD alfa, so it doesn't have OLC or most of the features the newer drivers have. I tinker with an LPMUD nowadays, because I hate working with text strings in C. :)
19 Apr, 2013, Nathan wrote in the 19th comment:
Votes: 0
I'm glad it works for you, but as I said, I don't a text editor is worth $70 period even if it is convenient. It seems a bit wrong to keep using something for free if they're expecting you to pay. In an ideal world, I'd expect a lifetime license period. I don't want some crap that's only good for a year – otherwise, a new version had better have something worth offering, or a reduced cost upgrade. In any case, it is a matter of opinion at some level. I like mine and you like yours.
19 Apr, 2013, Runter wrote in the 20th comment:
Votes: 0
Nathan said:
I'm glad it works for you, but as I said, I don't a text editor is worth $70 period even if it is convenient. It seems a bit wrong to keep using something for free if they're expecting you to pay. In an ideal world, I'd expect a lifetime license period. I don't want some crap that's only good for a year – otherwise, a new version had better have something worth offering, or a reduced cost upgrade. In any case, it is a matter of opinion at some level. I like mine and you like yours.


It's a matter of opinion, and your opinion is silly. You are complaining about an essentially free product charging too much for the commercial licenses. You think it's not worth $70, then don't buy it! Someone else thinks text editors aren't worth $0.70 cents, period. But what kind of cop out it is to pretend that because you find it too expensive, it's proven to be too expensive–and offensively so! It's mind boggling to me what people expect these days from people working their asses off to bring you good products. Do you think there's an economy of scale with building programming text editors? He's never going to sell hundreds of thousands of copies. He's rightfully focusing high end development studios who want the best tools and will pay the money. They'd happily pay less, but he knows the correct price point for the software. The same way other tools are *hundreds of dollars* and sometimes *thousands of dollars*. They aren't built for end users who have nothing but pocket change to toss around. The guy was gracious enough to make it free for people who don't want to pay the $70, yet that's also not good enough for you. I really hope you never release a commercial product and ask for [insert arbitrary amount of money that someone thinks is too much.]
0.0/20