29 Jun, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 21st comment:
Votes: 0
Yes, it's not that a tutorial is a bad thing, but I dislike having it be a seperate thing.

In the WoW example, the player is being spoon-fed a series of quests which ARE the tutorial. They are free to do them at their own pace, do a few and skip the rest, or ignore them entirely. If they level up by other means (grinding mobs), they can still pick up the higher level quests in the next area, just as if they were following the "tutorial" quest chain.

WoW's quest system usually works by implementing series of quest chains in a given story arc. While each small chain has to be started by a single quest to obtain the subsequent steps, at the first step of each chapter does not rely on previous chapters, only on progression.

The result is that the player ALWAYS has quests available to do, but NEVER is required to do them to progress. I would suggest that anyone look at their own "newbie area" and see if this is the case. Lots of us gamers like to bash WoW (myself included), but there's a reason they had 12 million subscribers, most of whom were casual players who didn't fit the MMO target audience mold. I think that original starting area experience is one of the big reasons.
29 Jun, 2013, plamzi wrote in the 22nd comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Yes, it's not that a tutorial is a bad thing, but I dislike having it be a seperate thing.

In the WoW example, the player is being spoon-fed a series of quests which ARE the tutorial. They are free to do them at their own pace, do a few and skip the rest, or ignore them entirely. If they level up by other means (grinding mobs), they can still pick up the higher level quests in the next area, just as if they were following the "tutorial" quest chain.

WoW's quest system usually works by implementing series of quest chains in a given story arc. While each small chain has to be started by a single quest to obtain the subsequent steps, at the first step of each chapter does not rely on previous chapters, only on progression.

The result is that the player ALWAYS has quests available to do, but NEVER is required to do them to progress. I would suggest that anyone look at their own "newbie area" and see if this is the case. Lots of us gamers like to bash WoW (myself included), but there's a reason they had 12 million subscribers, most of whom were casual players who didn't fit the MMO target audience mold. I think that original starting area experience is one of the big reasons.


There's always a lot to learn from the hits in a genre. I'm guessing that devs are learning from WoW even while bashing it :)

Incidentally, while I haven't researched WoW in particular, the intro you're describing bears striking resemblance to what I came up with after trying different things. The old tutorial was still optional but it took place in more of a controlled 'newbie school' environment. This latest one is optional hand-holding while you're doing an optional quest that is very much part of the regular game world. The quest is battle-centered, and as straightforward as it gets (find and kill 5 dragonet hatchlings).

In the old tutorial, I used to step people through basic item manipulation and basic ability to communicate, but all that is gone. I'm down to just movement and combat. The idea is to be as engaging as possible, and for the tutorial to be more of a contextual prop during normal gameplay. So, in a very real way, I have been making changes to engage people like the guy whose log I posted.

At some point, I'd like to add more contextual tutorial aid in key places. For instance, when someone enters a shop for the first time, prompts can help them navigate through their first purchase, etc. Or, if someone receives their first tell, it can come with a visual clue on how to reply. But that's lower priority than getting the combat flow right–I don't think anyone quits a new game because they can't figure out immediately how to chat or how to buy stuff.

The thing that would be interesting to consider is what the mobile equivalent of WoW would look like. A number of pretty big names have taken a stab at a 3D mobile MMO, and so far there haven't been any real hits. The platform is just very different. For a long time, there was a buzz around any 3D MMO in the AppStore, but now that there are dozens, I think that's pretty much gone now. I think people are beginning to realize that the reality of playing a 3D RPG on a touch screen, even if it's a tablet, is pretty intense. That's even if the game itself is extremely simple and the controls are super-forgiving. I don't think it's an accident that Bizzard hasn't even tried to enter the mobile market with its biggest franchises.
12 Aug, 2014, Impacatus wrote in the 23rd comment:
Votes: 0
I've tried introduce two friends to MUDs, both of whom never played a text based game before. They both reported getting frustrated and quitting.

Upon further interrogation, both revealed they skipped the tutorial. I just don't know what they expected to happen.
12 Aug, 2014, quixadhal wrote in the 24th comment:
Votes: 0
Impacatus said:
I've tried introduce two friends to MUDs, both of whom never played a text based game before. They both reported getting frustrated and quitting.

Upon further interrogation, both revealed they skipped the tutorial. I just don't know what they expected to happen.


The expected the game mechanics to be obvious enough to let them handle the basics without a tutorial, and to learn the less commonly used features as they came upon a need for them. That's how most graphical MMO's work.

Because a text MUD doesn't have a nice HUD display with obvious buttons to push, the newbie needs to be told how to move, how to fight, how to get loot if it isn't automatic, and how to communicate (to npcs and to other players). Most importantly, they need to be told there's a HELP command, and that command needs to emit a concise screenfull of the most common commands (maybe grouped by category), so they can do "help whatever" and get a short description of how it works.

IMHO, the only part of any of that which should be required (IE: shoved in their face when they log in) is the help command. If you have tutorial quests at the place where you start, they can do them or ignore them, but if you told them about help in the login sequence (maybe show it on every login until they're level 2), at least you know they CAN figure it out for themselves.
12 Aug, 2014, Impacatus wrote in the 25th comment:
Votes: 0
Even that might not help if you don't know what to look for. If you've never played a MUD before, you might not even know that a certain action is possible. For instance, the "map" command is tremendously useful to people who aren't used to navigating in a text-based environment, but those people won't know it's there. And I think if you're patient enough to read through all the suggested help files just in case, you're patient enough to do the tutorial.
12 Aug, 2014, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 26th comment:
Votes: 0
People want (at least try) to play a text game, but dont want to read.
You cannot solve stupidity.
20.0/26