07 Sep, 2013, Tijer wrote in the 21st comment:
Votes: 0
Zugg should've gone the same way as Mushclient.. open source free releases.. Used to use cMUD/zMUD all the time.. converted to MUSHClient in 2010.. never looked back!!
12 Sep, 2013, Nathan wrote in the 22nd comment:
Votes: 0
Tijer said:
Zugg should've gone the same way as Mushclient.. open source free releases.. Used to use cMUD/zMUD all the time.. converted to MUSHClient in 2010.. never looked back!!


They could have just reduced the price. Who in their right mind would pay $30-40 for a MUD client? Especially when they could spend that on one or more games on Steam that are nigh guaranteed to be fun rather than on the off chance that there is a fun MUD to play out there or on the changing fortunes of a MUD they already play and like? At $10 bucks it'd probably sell if the user liked the demo enough and for $15-20 it might still manage some sales. Open sourcing it would have kept a user base alive, rather than declaring that you can't make any money and abandoning any past customers to find a replacement, etc or use MUSHclient and the like.
13 Sep, 2013, Famine wrote in the 23rd comment:
Votes: 0
Nathan said:
Tijer said:
Zugg should've gone the same way as Mushclient.. open source free releases.. Used to use cMUD/zMUD all the time.. converted to MUSHClient in 2010.. never looked back!!


They could have just reduced the price. Who in their right mind would pay $30-40 for a MUD client? Especially when they could spend that on one or more games on Steam that are nigh guaranteed to be fun rather than on the off chance that there is a fun MUD to play out there or on the changing fortunes of a MUD they already play and like? At $10 bucks it'd probably sell if the user liked the demo enough and for $15-20 it might still manage some sales. Open sourcing it would have kept a user base alive, rather than declaring that you can't make any money and abandoning any past customers to find a replacement, etc or use MUSHclient and the like.


Umm, it's a niche market and the license is for a lifetime. If you can't afford $30 for a lifetime license on a game you will likely play for more than a year, then there is something wrong.

I personally thought the price was just fine.
13 Sep, 2013, Tijer wrote in the 24th comment:
Votes: 0
but…. Cmud wasnt going to be for lifetime.. was origina;ly going to be for 2 years worth of updates… I paid for a Zmud license.. and Cmud license and a cmud 3.0 license, which to be honest was a rip off because shortly after the 3.0 release Zugg gave up on the mud client totally.
13 Sep, 2013, plamzi wrote in the 25th comment:
Votes: 0
Tijer said:
but…. Cmud wasnt going to be for lifetime.. was origina;ly going to be for 2 years worth of updates… I paid for a Zmud license.. and Cmud license and a cmud 3.0 license, which to be honest was a rip off because shortly after the 3.0 release Zugg gave up on the mud client totally.


If Cmud 3.0 was sold to you with the guarantee of at least 2 years of updates, then you have every right to feel ripped off.

If not, I would just feel bummed that the market isn't there to support even one commercial MUD client.
13 Sep, 2013, Hades_Kane wrote in the 26th comment:
Votes: 0
When equivalent or even better free ones exist, why would there be a market for a commercial one?
13 Sep, 2013, Nathan wrote in the 27th comment:
Votes: 0
Famine said:
Nathan said:
Tijer said:
Zugg should've gone the same way as Mushclient.. open source free releases.. Used to use cMUD/zMUD all the time.. converted to MUSHClient in 2010.. never looked back!!


They could have just reduced the price. Who in their right mind would pay $30-40 for a MUD client? Especially when they could spend that on one or more games on Steam that are nigh guaranteed to be fun rather than on the off chance that there is a fun MUD to play out there or on the changing fortunes of a MUD they already play and like? At $10 bucks it'd probably sell if the user liked the demo enough and for $15-20 it might still manage some sales. Open sourcing it would have kept a user base alive, rather than declaring that you can't make any money and abandoning any past customers to find a replacement, etc or use MUSHclient and the like.


Umm, it's a niche market and the license is for a lifetime. If you can't afford $30 for a lifetime license on a game you will likely play for more than a year, then there is something wrong.

I personally thought the price was just fine.


I would be willing to pay $30 for a game I was going to play for more than a year. I've never found any mud I could get that far into and in any case, we're talking about purchasing a means of accessing games, not an actual game. It might be a niche market in a way, but the free stuff outcompetes it.
14 Sep, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 28th comment:
Votes: 0
Heh, "lifetime" means min(your.lifetime, business.lifetime).

Ask the folks who paid $300 for lifetime subscriptions to Lord of the Rings Online, or even worse… Star Trek Online. Both of which are now free to play.
14 Sep, 2013, Shaitan wrote in the 29th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Ask the folks who paid $300 for lifetime subscriptions to Lord of the Rings Online, or even worse… Star Trek Online


Or even worse… Hellgate: London
14 Sep, 2013, arholly wrote in the 30th comment:
Votes: 0
I enjoyed Hellgate:London, very sad when it went under…
15 Sep, 2013, Famine wrote in the 31st comment:
Votes: 0
Well, I was more or less meaning that you could use zMUD for life after you pay it. I wasn't referring to how many free updates you should have received.

I think it was 30 for zMUD and then 25 for the upgrade to CMUD. Now that CMUD may halt on development, that's only 25 for everything until you die. :P
15 Sep, 2013, plamzi wrote in the 32nd comment:
Votes: 0
Hades_Kane said:
When equivalent or even better free ones exist, why would there be a market for a commercial one?


When there's a healthy market, commercial apps can co-exist with equivalent free apps (e. g. they can charge for support). In a healthy market, the appearance of a strong free contender is a cue for the commercial app to raise the stakes and add enterprise-quality features, impeccable documentation, etc. That's not what happened in this case, and the thing to lament is that it's another sign of a niche market gone nicher.
16 Sep, 2013, Famine wrote in the 33rd comment:
Votes: 0
plamzi said:
Hades_Kane said:
When equivalent or even better free ones exist, why would there be a market for a commercial one?


When there's a healthy market, commercial apps can co-exist with equivalent free apps (e. g. they can charge for support). In a healthy market, the appearance of a strong free contender is a cue for the commercial app to raise the stakes and add enterprise-quality features, impeccable documentation, etc. That's not what happened in this case, and the thing to lament is that it's another sign of a niche market gone nicher.


Yepyep.

I don't know the statistics, but I'm willing to bet there is enough people to sustain such a commercial application. It's just they are not willing to pay for one. I assume a good reason so many still play text-based games is because of the low costs involved. Thus, I assume the wealth and spending habits are a lot lower than most.

Besides that, it seems all the commercial MUD's have or force the use of their own clients. Even those who are willing to spend more money than the average non-profit game, you can't even develop a product and market to them.
19 Sep, 2013, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 34th comment:
Votes: 0
Just reading this thread again raised a question people should check.
Zmud use a goddam license renewal everytime you need to reinstall.
Wonder if that will change cause it needs to if the business go under.
19 Sep, 2013, KaVir wrote in the 35th comment:
Votes: 0
Famine said:
I don't know the statistics, but I'm willing to bet there is enough people to sustain such a commercial application. It's just they are not willing to pay for one.

I imagine they might if the client offered something they wanted that they couldn't get for free. But as plamzi mentioned, that's not the case with zMUD/CMUD.

Famine said:
Besides that, it seems all the commercial MUD's have or force the use of their own clients.

The commercial graphical muds usually do, sure. But most commercial text-based muds allow you to use your favourite client, at most they'll usually just strongly recommend one - but that's common with hobby muds too, the popularity of any particular client varies a lot from mud to mud.
20 Sep, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 36th comment:
Votes: 0
Rarva.Riendf said:
Just reading this thread again raised a question people should check.
Zmud use a goddam license renewal everytime you need to reinstall.
Wonder if that will change cause it needs to if the business go under.


ROFL… I would imagine that if the business goes under, they won't give a rat's arse about changing or updating ANYTHING.
Welcome to the DRM-filled world of the future. I'm glad you enjoy it citizen.
20 Sep, 2013, Runter wrote in the 37th comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
Rarva.Riendf said:
Just reading this thread again raised a question people should check.
Zmud use a goddam license renewal everytime you need to reinstall.
Wonder if that will change cause it needs to if the business go under.


ROFL… I would imagine that if the business goes under, they won't give a rat's arse about changing or updating ANYTHING.
Welcome to the DRM-filled world of the future. I'm glad you enjoy it citizen.


This is pretty alarmist. I can't think of a single software that I've paid money for in the last few years that I no longer have access to because of DRM. I can think of some because of services going offline. There wasn't always an alternative yesterday.

Old software in the past died with or without DRM. I have tons of relatively new games without DRM that I can't play because I don't have windows XP, and yet at the same time newer games are becoming more cross platform and future proof to operating system changes. Not to mention cloud storage because of the DRM that preserves your titles when hard drive crashes, or you lose the disk. It makes it ring a bit hollow when overall the experience for an average user is getting better, not worse, with regards to the security of the investments in software.
20 Sep, 2013, quixadhal wrote in the 38th comment:
Votes: 0
Did you actually read the message I quoted from Rarva?

"Zmud used a goddamn license renewal every time you needed to re-install."

That's DRM, and it very clearly implies that if the company goes away, so much for being able to reinstall it.

I wasn't making some vague hand-waving threat about the future. Zmud was a specific product that was quite popular. I don't know if Cmud has the same activation issue, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did, since it was made by the same company. And while they are older programs, apparently people still use them today. I would imagine a windows MUD client isn't going to be so sophisticated that it dies because of a new version of windows. I suspect Zuggsoft disappearing will happen before the windows API's in question change enough to make it not run anymore.

The fact is, most people have gotten lucky so far. DRM has been most prevalent on games or PC operating systems, and the target hardware and platform for those changes often enough that, as you say, you'll stop using it before you are forced to stop using it. That's not because the DRM isn't so bad… that's because most people have too much money, and buy new computers/game consoles/etc too frequently for it to become an issue. :)
20 Sep, 2013, Rarva.Riendf wrote in the 39th comment:
Votes: 0
For info Cmud has the same system, (though I never used it, as I think it is vastly inferior program than Zmud in general.)

>I would imagine a windows MUD client isn't going to be so sophisticated that it dies because of a new version of windows.

Even if it does, I use virtual machine to have acces to my old scanner, 512 meg of ram is all it takes. (for running xp)

Those drm are annoying as well, Microsoft use the same as well btw, even in box version. Pretty much the only piece of software I own that does that. Will never buy anything that requires it again. (that pretty much includes every new video game as well….)
21 Sep, 2013, Famine wrote in the 40th comment:
Votes: 0
You know, he could just patch it before he closes up shop.
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