01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 1st comment:
Votes: 0
Hello all,

I thought the community might like to hear an update on the progress of my MUD, Societal Collapse: Zombie Edition. I am coding it from scratch. The setting takes place in and around a modern day US city during a zombie apocalypse. The MUD has come pretty far, but it is still some while off from being open for play. Im posting here mostly in order to encourage discussion and ideas for my MUD and to instill interest in the community. What follows below is a lengthy and not necessarily orderly description of what I consider to be the more interesting parts of my MUD.

The MUD will be roleplay enforced with a mature theme. This will be a world where it is entirely possible and a frequent necessity to bludgeon in the face of a zombified little girl. As far as players know, the virus has spread across the globe and has caused most, if not all, governments to crumble. Hatholme City, the central area of focus within the MUD, has been decimated by the virus. Local law enforcement is no more. If the military is around, they sure arent extending a helping hand to anyone. The power grid is out. There has been rampant looting and fires have gutted buildings. Players take on the roles of survivors who are apparently resistant to the effects of the zombie virus. The goal of the game is simple: to survive and eke out a living. While the game is roleplay enforced, combat plays a large role in the experience as well.

Players start off in a safe area where they may learn the ropes and acquire some starter supplies. Once they leave this area, however, there is no going back and they will never be completely safe ever again. The game is essentially divided into two cycles: night and day. During the night, players will be busy fighting/fleeing/hiding for their dear lives. During the day, players will likely be treating their wounds, repairing and constructing fortifications, resting, procuring food and drink, and scavenging for supplies. Any remaining time to do things like explore, train attributes and skills, and craft items will be a luxury.

Players may choose an expertise in one of the following skill sets (but may learn skills in other skill sets at a reduced speed): Stealth, Melee, Firearms, Explosives, Crafting, Construction, Vehicles, Medical, Botany, Repair, Survival. There are no levels. Player stats are improved over time by performing related actions and skills. In order to unlock a skill, players must meet certain stat requirements (and in the case of some skills, acquire precursory knowledge through reading books or lessons from a master). A lot of the numbers associated with skill advancement are hidden in an effort (however effective it may be) to deter grinding.

The game features an accounts system that manages acquired roleplay points and characters. As character death is permanent, having roleplay points associated with the account rather than the character softens the blow of losing a character. Roleplay points will be redeemable for all sorts of various prizes.

Conflicts with zombies are obviously one of the more interesting aspects of the game. Every night (and, when I get around to coding it, on dark and cloudy days), zombies come out from hiding in search of humans to tear apart and devour. The MUD employs what I call a heat system. Heat is a blanket term that I use to describe how significant/noticeable a players presence or trail in a room is. Heat is constantly generated in a room just by a players presence alone. Actions like talking, shooting a gun, or blowing something up will further increases heat. Heat can spread to neighboring rooms and eventually tapers off. Zombies use heat to navigate with (usually moving from rooms of less heat to greater heat). Unless a player makes a concerted effort to conceal their presence from zombies, it is likely that they eventually will be found no matter where they are.

This faces players with various playstyle decisions that must be madeshould they remain constantly on the run or hole up in a fortified position, should they group up with other survivors at the risk of attracting more attention from zombies or go it alone, should they use the effective but loud shotgun or the considerably more stealthy but less powerful steak knife.

Typical zombies must have their head destroyed in order to remain dead. If a zombie is incapacitated (receives a large amount of damage that KOs it for awhile) but its head is left intact, it will eventually resurrect and get back up. Zombies can have their limbs severed during combat or even have their heads blown off. Players can also behead incapacitated zombies. Zombies can bash doors and barricades that obstruct their path to damage and eventually break through them. On rare occasion, a severed zombie arm will spring to life and attack. Destroying a zombies leg will cause it to fall to the ground and crawl around. I plan to code in other body part-related limitations like being unable to claw or even move at all in the future. Zombies can consume raw non-infected flesh to regenerate their health with. They are even attracted to it and will go out of their way to find it. Meat can be used by survivors as bait for traps, ambushes, and decoys.

Zombies (and all other NPCs) can have their AI patterns interchangeably swapped. The typical zombie has what I call the seek and destroy AI pattern. Future AI patterns could involve zombies that loiter around/guard particular locations, vengeful zombies that randomly select a player and stop at nothing to hunt them down where ever they may be, or zombies that are inclined to use particular abilities like climbing up/crawling under things or latching onto players. Similarly, human survivor NPCs will be able to demonstrate different types of behavior. Some may come to your assistance in battle, others may flee and hide from zombies, some may try to murder you and take your gear. Some may parade around in underpants while ranting about how the end of the world is upon us all.

In the future, there will also be various virus-induced mutated creatures with different attributes and abilities that players may encounter.

I have coded in a system that allows for different characters to have different bodies. For example, a player or a typical zombie has a humanoid bodya head, a torso, and four limbs. Each has a specific health weight and chance of being hit. Humanoid bodies can break bones and bleed. In the future, this system will allow me to create different bodies for NPCs. Things like giant mutant spiders that need to have 4-5 legs severed to become disabled or a blob monster that can separate into two smaller blobs when attacked or absorb a weapon swung at it.

There are few different ways that objects/mobs/vehicles can be spawned:

By room, statically: X amount of object/mob/vehicle of vnum Y will spawn in a room.
By area, statically: X amount of object/mob/vehicle of vnum Y will spawn throughout an area with A frequency and B chance.

By area, dynamically: This is where things get particularly interesting. Instead of specifying a vnum, a builder can specify a quality level and a category. For example:
X amount of low-level medical supplies will spawn throughout an area with A frequency and B chance.

Dynamic area spawns create incentive for players to revisit areas they have previously scavenged. By being able to distinguish between low-level and high-level spawns, builders can make spawns for things like hockey sticks and pool cues relatively common while making spawns for machetes and chainsaws rare but still possible.

Firearms have been coded in. At this time, there are seven types: pistols, shotguns, rifles, assault rifles, bows, grenade launchers, and rocket launchers. All ammunition has a primary type and a subtype. For example, a 12-Gauge shotgun requires 12-gauge shotgun shells (primary type). A 12-gauge buckshot shell can be interchangeably used with a 12-gauge slug shell. Using buckshot can hit multiple targets at a time, while a slug shell will cause heavier damage to a single target. Ammunition can take a variety of formsfor example, there is a nailgun that takes cartridges of explosive nails. Grenade launchers can fire various grenade roundstear gas, fragmentation, stun, incendiary. A potato cannon rocket launcher that fires potato rounds. Rifles and assault rifles can be used to snipe targets from a distance. Assault rifles can be set to single, burst, or automatic fire for various levels of ammo expenditure/dps. Bows are considerably stealthy (generating zero noise) and fired arrows can be retrieved and reused. Firearms can have up to five different slots for weapon attachmentsstock, scope, silencer, secondary weapon, and pointer. A scope might increase sniping range/accuracy, may grant nightvision, or both. Firearms can jam on occasion.

All weapons can have flashlights duct taped to them.

There are four categorizations for melee weapons: bludgeons, blades, spray weapons (pepper spray, fire extinguisher, flamethrower), and power tools. They all do what youd expect they would, more or less. Players can also learn to fight more effectively while unarmed.

Theres a lot of variety amongst explosives. Players can craft molotov cocktails from containers of alcohol (and their effectiveness is proportional to how full they are). They can be thrown and explode on contact. Players with greater crafting skill can create pipe bombs. Pipe bombs can be set with a timer and can be left lying around, thrown, or whatever. Grenades come in a few different flavors and dont require any further explanation. Players can rig corpses and vehicles with pipe bombs so that they explode when interacted with/started. Claymores can be set to detonate by one of four different modes-remote, proximity, countdown, or exact time. There is also a defuse skill that can be used to neutralize some armed explosive types. Of course, there are also grenade and rocket launchers, though they do not require much explanation.

Vehicles are partially coded into the MUD. Cars, buses, and APCs are in, as are helicopters. Motorcycles will be added in the future. Players can run zombies over or throw objects (like bombs) out the windows. Eventually I will code in weapons that can be fired from militarized vehicles.

During character generation, players are able to select two low-level perks for their character. Perks are like advantages or bonuses in other games. In example, the Drunken Brawler perk improves a players unarmed fighting proficiency while inebriated. The MacGyver perk grants a chance of crafting an object from fewer materials. I plan to code it so that roleplay points can be used to purchase additional perks.

There are four main resourcesmetal, wood, cloth, and chemicals. With the proper tools and skills, players can salvage these resources from objects they find. For example, a player can acquire cloth by cutting up a t-shirt with a pair of scissors. The cloth can be used to craft bandages or to make new clothing/armor.

Food and drink that is safe to consume will not be easy to acquire. For example, if a player drinks from a pond, later they will probably become sick. Same thing if they eat raw meat. A player can set containers outdoors to collect rainfall, or they can draw water from a tainted source and boil it over a campfire. Players can fish, and plant and harvest crops as well. And, of course, players may find the occasional bottle of soda or bag of potato chips lying around. I plan to code in canned foods that require a can-opener to consume. I can already envision a crazed player with a room full of canned goods and no can-opener.

Radios are coded in. Players can tune them to various frequencies to communicate with each other. In the future, Id like to code in some NPC-operated radio stations akin to the radio from Fallout 3.

Medicine has been coded in a fair amount. Medicine can be injected, inhaled, applied topically, or ingested. Sedatives, stimulants, poison, antidote, bronchodilator, saline nutrients, eyewash, and hemostatic medicine-types have already been coded in. Id like to add more in the future. Medicines can have varying levels of potency. i.e. Ingested Nyquil isnt going to be nearly as effective as an injection of sodium pentathol.

And a bunch of other stuff that I dont have the energy to type at the moment.

Apologies that my information couldnt be better organized than it is. Thanks for reading this far. Any input/ideas that people may have for my MUD is welcomed!

-Kaeden
01 Feb, 2010, Idealiad wrote in the 2nd comment:
Votes: 0
Sounds very interesting, do you have an address to connect to?
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 3rd comment:
Votes: 0
Thanks. I sent you a PM.
01 Feb, 2010, KaVir wrote in the 4th comment:
Votes: 0
Bit of an unusual setting for RP-enforced permadeath. With daily attacks from zombies, and the sort of theme that requires little to no justification for killing fellow humans, do you think characters will live long enough for their players to form an attachment with them?

Kaeden said:
During the night, players will be busy fighting/fleeing/hiding for their dear lives. During the day, players will likely be treating their wounds, repairing and constructing fortifications, resting, procuring food and drink, and scavenging for supplies. Any remaining time to do things like explore, train attributes and skills, and craft items will be a luxury.

What about roleplaying? If I'm spending all my time on mechanics-oriented gameplay, when do I earn roleplay points? And how do I earn them?

You also mentioned that the zombies only attack at night. What's to stop players logging off at dusk and then logging back on at dawn?

The "heat system" sounds interesting, but if that's the sole method of navigation for zombies, couldn't players just start big bonfires far away from their hideouts just before nightfall?

You also mentioned players treating their wounds - does that mean players are immune to the virus?
01 Feb, 2010, Crelin wrote in the 5th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
You also mentioned players treating their wounds - does that mean players are immune to the virus?


Quote
Players take on the roles of survivors who are apparently resistant to the effects of the zombie virus.
01 Feb, 2010, KaVir wrote in the 6th comment:
Votes: 0
"apparently resistant" isn't quite the same as "completely immune".
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 7th comment:
Votes: 0
KaVir said:
Bit of an unusual setting for RP-enforced permadeath. With daily attacks from zombies, and the sort of theme that requires little to no justification for killing fellow humans, do you think characters will live long enough for their players to form an attachment with them?

It's going to be something of an experiment. I suspect early on in a player's experience, the player will die frequently, but they'll eventually wisen up and make smarter choices that lead to longer lifespans. If it turns out that I can't maintain a playerbase because the game is too much of a slaughterfest, I will have to look into alternative options.


KaVir said:
What about roleplaying? If I'm spending all my time on mechanics-oriented gameplay, when do I earn roleplay points? And how do I earn them?

I may have exaggerated when describing players' schedules. Hopefully players will find the time to roleplay with each other amidst all that. Obviously, it will be more difficult to do lengthy paragraph emotes during the night if you're constantly slaying zombies, but daytime ought to be a little more peaceful. If players are unable to find the time to roleplay amidst all that is going on around them, I might look into doing something like extending the length of night and day to give them more time to interact with each other.

While I haven't coded it yet, I'd like to make a zombie spawning system that sort of assesses players' combat capability and spawns an appropriate force of zombies comparable to the players. The idea being that if a crafter player with few combat skills was logged on, the game would "go easy" on them as opposed to a veteran zombie slayer. I plan to do this by using a points system: For each area in the game, the number of players are tallied up. Perhaps 10 points are added for each player. For each 200 points of health amongst the players, 1 point is added. For each 20 points of armor amongst the players, 1 point is added. For each X amount of proficiency in a combat skill set, 1 point is added. For each 500 zombie kills, 2 points are added. And so on…

Once you have a sum of points that roughly assesses how battle-hardy logged on players are, you can then spend these points on zombies (and, if the points are high enough, perhaps even special and dangerous mutants).

I haven't decided how exactly roleplay points will be awarded yet. While allowing players to award them to each other is a possibility, the potential for abuse seems too great to me. I'm thinking of instead having RP staff hand them out. They'd also be awarded to players for things like participation in special events or maybe the occasional zombie trivia night. If players want to be there to roleplay, do they really need a carrot dangled in front of them at all times?

KaVir said:
You also mentioned that the zombies only attack at night. What's to stop players logging off at dusk and then logging back on at dawn?

Nothing, really. I don't intend to hold players hostage to the game. Though they'd be missing out on a huge aspect of the game.

KaVir said:
The "heat system" sounds interesting, but if that's the sole method of navigation for zombies, couldn't players just start big bonfires far away from their hideouts just before nightfall?

I also have pathfinding code that can be used to navigate to any particular location. This is where those "vengeful" zombies come in. Also, zombies that encounter players on their way to the big bonfire will attack players before continuing to the bonfire. Also, overall heat rating may be a metric used by my system for calculating how many hostiles to spawn in an area. If you start doing things like blowing up cars and burning down buildings in an effort to distract zombies, you might accidentally pique the interest of Mr. Rancor Mutant and encourage him to drop by the neighborhood… :biggrin:

KaVir said:
You also mentioned players treating their wounds - does that mean players are immune to the virus?

I wanted to leave it sort of ambiguous so I have room to redefine it in the future. For now, I don't want to have to deal with players succumbing to zombie virus since there is no cure available and players would drop like flies from scratches and bites. For now–yes, players are immune to the virus.

If anyone has suggestions as how to improve upon any of these issues, I'd love to hear them.
01 Feb, 2010, Cratylus wrote in the 8th comment:
Votes: 0
A game that is strictly about surviving an end of the world zombie onslaught
will probably be fun for a little while, but eventually only the people who
enjoy the tedium of neverending waves of the same enemy will remain.

I suspect that means that without high, and I mean really high turnover
and player recruiting, the mud probably has a short lifespan.

Assuming this is true, you could make it a *planned* lifespan, and make it
more interesting for people not-just-into-grind-and-survival, by adding
the element of causation and motivation to the zombie theme.

I submit for your approval, Plan 9 From Outer Space.

Admittedly a very bad movie, it's worth watching for the ideas. An
advanced race of aliens has for years been trying to dissuade Earth
governments from a kind of research (solarinite) that has the potential
to initiate a destructive chain reaction from star to star, effectively
destroying the known universe. In typical 1950's cold war fashion,
Earth governments preferred to continue researching the ultimate bomb
to use against their enemies, and so the aliens resort to stopping
the "stupid, stupid" humans by unleashing Plan 9, the reanimation of
the dead to use against the living.

An overarching plot like this gives people with higher command
sensibilities something to do other than wait for death, and it
establishes a goal and "win state", which accepts that the mud's plot
eventually will conclude at some point anyway, but this way with a
possible good "bang" rather than an exsanguinating whimper.

-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
01 Feb, 2010, Scandum wrote in the 9th comment:
Votes: 0
It would probably be better to determine part of the zombie attack strength on the location the player is in. Roleplayers could then choose to fortify a building in an area with low food density or something else that makes it less valuable, though for this to work distance would have to actually mean something, like having movement consume calories.

One thing I always liked about zombie movies is that if a person dies they turn into a zombie themselves. Fiction wise those immune could have an above average body temperature, and as the player dies their body becomes susceptible to the virus. This would add hypothermia as something to avoid (snuggle or die!) and the more habitable areas would be in warmer regions near the ocean.
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 10th comment:
Votes: 0
Cratylus said:
A game that is strictly about surviving an end of the world zombie onslaught
will probably be fun for a little while, but eventually only the people who
enjoy the tedium of neverending waves of the same enemy will remain.

I suspect that means that without high, and I mean really high turnover
and player recruiting, the mud probably has a short lifespan.

Assuming this is true, you could make it a *planned* lifespan, and make it
more interesting for people not-just-into-grind-and-survival, by adding
the element of causation and motivation to the zombie theme.

I agree that there is a limit to how many zombies a player can kill before it becomes a chore. However, I plan for there to be long-term elements to the game as well. There will be an overall story that players will be able to participate in. There will be a military presence in the game, however, it will have plans on its agenda other than protecting civilians. There will be other NPC factions like raiders and religious fanatics. Perhaps even some sort of self-appointed law enforcement. Players will be able to learn about the origins of the virus. Special events/"quests" will be hosted by staff from time to time. Automated quests for NPC factions may become available. Players will be able to try to rebuild communities and even drive back the zombie infestation. New content can be added-new zombies with different equipment (for example, a police officer zombie with body armor), new zombies with different behaviors, new mutants with all kinds of extraordinary qualities and abilities. I think the mutants alone are a goldmine of possibilities. New equipment can be added. New areas to explore/fortify can be added. Perhaps a long-term quest could be for players to restart a power plant. This could involve driving zombies/mutants out of the plant, fortifying it, escorting civilians from some other location to it, and then conducting the technical repairs needed to get it pumping juice again. I guess where you see a dead end with the theme, I see a lot of potential.

Cratylus said:
Plan 9

I may not go with aliens from outer space, but I can relate to the need to spice things up with new and interesting content to keep players interested.
01 Feb, 2010, KaVir wrote in the 11th comment:
Votes: 0
Kaeden said:
It's going to be something of an experiment. I suspect early on in a player's experience, the player will die frequently, but they'll eventually wisen up and make smarter choices that lead to longer lifespans. If it turns out that I can't maintain a playerbase because the game is too much of a slaughterfest, I will have to look into alternative options.

Permadeath is already a niche feature. Combined with frequent death and enforced roleplaying (the latter of which typically involves investing a lot of effort into character building), I think you're going to find it difficult retaining new players long enough to build up a playerbase.

One possibility would be to drop the permadeath aspect, or at least make true death far less common - perhaps in most cases, when a character is defeated, they are simply incapacitated. An NPC rescue team then drags them to a medical facility for treatment.

Another possibility might be to place less emphasis on the character-building and background aspects of roleplaying, and instead just focus on maintaining a pure IC atmosphere. Players could be encouraged to throw together short-lived characters for some fast and furious action. Perhaps also allow them to carry over most (or even all) of their progress when creating a new character (I've used this approach in the past and found it effective).

Kaeden said:
If players are unable to find the time to roleplay amidst all that is going on around them, I might look into doing something like extending the length of night and day to give them more time to interact with each other.

I don't think extending the time would help, as the problem is you're providing incentives to not roleplay. If I spend an hour roleplaying my character, that's an hour lost that I could instead have spent finding resources, training skills or improving the fortifications on my hideout. When the zombies get hungry, it's those resources, skills and fortifications that will save my life. The roleplayers will be the first to get eaten!

What you could try doing is make the essential activities fairly passive, and provide bonuses for teamwork. Thus if Bubba and I work together on strengthening the hideout, the result will be far better than if we worked separately - and the work itself is primarily a background activity, meaning we switch on 'work' mode and then concentrate our efforts on roleplaying.

Thus roleplaying isn't an alternative to the gameplay, but is instead something that can be done in parallel.

Kaeden said:
While I haven't coded it yet, I'd like to make a zombie spawning system that sort of assesses players' combat prowess and spawns an appropriate force of zombies comparable to the players.


Kaeden said:
KaVir said:
You also mentioned that the zombies only attack at night. What's to stop players logging off at dusk and then logging back on at dawn?

Nothing, really. I don't intend to hold players hostage to the game. Though they'd be missing out on a huge aspect of the game.


I think the second point (players logging off to avoid being killed) could be a problem, particularly if they've a lot to lose. I think the first point in combination with the second could be an even more serious problem - if you spawn the zombies based on the players currently online, and some of them start quitting to avoid being killed, it's going to put increasing pressure on the others to quit as well.

One option is for characters to remain online even when the player isn't logged on. But in combination with permadeath, this really isn't something I'd suggest - the stakes are simply too high.

I suppose the zombie threat could adjust itself based on the current playerbase, so that some zombies wander away if a player quits, and others arrive if a player logs on.

You may also run into issues with griefer-types though. The zombie threat might add extra zombies based on the superb fighting skills of Evil Bob, but that's perhaps not desirable when Evil Bob is using his skills to plant explosives around the base of PC hideouts, then picking off the survivors with his sniper rifle.

Kaeden said:
For now–yes, players are immune to the virus.

Bit of a shame really, it would be rather fun for players to see their old characters shambling around as zombies ;) If you don't want players succumbing to the virus due to injury, you could say that they only become zombies if they've been killed.

Does the virus primarily effect only humans, or would there also be zombie cats, dogs and rat-monkeys roaming the streets? You mentioned blob monsters and giant spiders before, so presumably the virus isn't limited exclusively to humans - but how common are these other beasties?
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 12th comment:
Votes: 0
Scandum said:
It would probably be better to determine part of the zombie attack strength on the location the player is in. Roleplayers could then choose to fortify a building in an area with low food density or something else that makes it less valuable, though for this to work distance would have to actually mean something, like having movement consume calories.

I have coded it so that I can specify a "danger level" for each area. The danger level sort of acts like a multiplier for the points score. So an area with low scavenging potential could have a lower rate of zombie spawns while a resource-rich area could have greater chance of nastier things spawning.

Scandum said:
One thing I always liked about zombie movies is that if a person dies they turn into a zombie themselves. Fiction wise those immune could have an above average body temperature, and as the player dies their body becomes susceptible to the virus. This would add hypothermia as something to avoid (snuggle or die!) and the more habitable areas would be in warmer regions near the ocean.


It was only recently that I finally made it so that players die permanently so I never added in zombification after death. Perhaps I will code it so that a zombie made in the deceased player's image lives on afterward.
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 13th comment:
Votes: 0
KaVir said:
Permadeath is already a niche feature. Combined with frequent death and enforced roleplaying (the latter of which typically involves investing a lot of effort into character building), I think you're going to find it difficult retaining new players long enough to build up a playerbase.

One possibility would be to drop the permadeath aspect, or at least make true death far less common - perhaps in most cases, when a character is defeated, they are simply incapacitated. An NPC rescue team then drags them to a medical facility for treatment.

Another possibility might be to place less emphasis on the character-building and background aspects of roleplaying, and instead just focus on maintaining a pure IC atmosphere. Players could be encouraged to throw together short-lived characters for some fast and furious action. Perhaps also allow them to carry over most (or even all) of their progress when creating a new character (I've used this approach in the past and found it effective).


Players probably will not be required to generate background information or possibly even a description due to how quickly they could go through a few characters early on. I may very well allow players to carry over a lot of their progress to new characters. Or allow the new character to quickly advance in skills/stats to where they originally were. Rescue teams are a possibility. Maybe every time you "die" there's a 95% chance of rescue and a 5% chance of true death. People get to keep on living for the most part, but death will still be very undesirable.

KaVir said:
I don't think extending the time would help, as the problem is you're providing incentives to not roleplay. If I spend an hour roleplaying my character, that's an hour lost that I could instead have spent finding resources, training skills or improving the fortifications on my hideout. When the zombies get hungry, it's those resources, skills and fortifications that will save my life. The roleplayers will be the first to get eaten!

What you could try doing is make the essential activities fairly passive, and provide bonuses for teamwork. Thus if Bubba and I work together on strengthening the hideout, the result will be far better than if we worked separately - and the work itself is primarily a background activity, meaning we switch on 'work' mode and then concentrate our efforts on roleplaying.

Thus roleplaying isn't an alternative to the gameplay, but is instead something that can be done in parallel.


Hmm. Maybe I was too optimistic that the chores and the roleplay would work out. The automated chores thing is a possibility, though it wouldn't be very fun for me to code. :|

I was planning on having "safe haven" areas in the game operated by NPCs that would have guards and basic amenities. Through donations of players, the amenities they would be able to offer could be improved. I was thinking of making them rely upon services from players to keep them running, though. For example, a player might have to make runs to scavenge food and water to bring back to the safe haven to keep it alive. In return, the guards continue to defend their posts against zombies and the player gets some breather time. I was thinking of making these safe havens not quite as safe as their name suggests, though. Perhaps if I were to make them safer it would grant players the opportunity to roleplay more without having to worry about survival as much?</tangent>

KaVir said:
I think the second point (players logging off to avoid being killed) could be a problem, particularly if they've a lot to lose. I think the first point in combination with the second could be an even more serious problem - if you spawn the zombies based on the players currently online, and some of them start quitting to avoid being killed, it's going to put increasing pressure on the others to quit as well.

You may also run into issues with griefer-types though. The zombie threat might add extra zombies based on the superb fighting skills of Evil Bob, but that's perhaps not desirable when Evil Bob is using his skills to plant explosives around the base of PC hideouts, then picking off the survivors with his sniper rifle.

The MUD will phase out zombies at regular intervals if the amount in an area heavily outweighs the calculated score for it. Dealing with Evil Bob is trickier, though. It wouldn't be a perfect solution, but perhaps if the score were to be reduced by players flagged as having recently fought against another player.

Kavir said:
Bit of a shame really, it would be rather fun for players to see their old characters shambling around as zombies ;) If you don't want players succumbing to the virus due to injury, you could say that they only become zombies if they've been killed.

Does the virus primarily effect only humans, or would there also be zombie cats, dogs and rat-monkeys roaming the streets? You mentioned blob monsters and giant spiders before, so presumably the virus isn't limited exclusively to humans - but how common are these other beasties?


I think I may make it so that players cannot die from the zombie virus, but can be reanimated by it after death has occurred. The virus will most likely effect a lot of non-human creatures. Zombified forms will be just as common as their non-zombified forms. Mutants will likely be a lot less common, though.
01 Feb, 2010, shasarak wrote in the 14th comment:
Votes: 0
No opportunity for player-controlled zombies or mutants?
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 15th comment:
Votes: 0
For now, at least, I'd like to keep zombies/mutants non-player controlled. This way, I can focus on just balancing human survivors against the rest of the game without having to worry about the implications of player-controlled zombies and mutants. I observed on another MUD that players in control of zombies would demonstrate behavior not very befitting of a zombie. Things like camping sources of water so that survivors would eventually die of thirst or deliberately traveling around and breaking every single door they find so that survivors will have no where to flee to.
01 Feb, 2010, shasarak wrote in the 16th comment:
Votes: 0
Kaeden said:
For now, at least, I'd like to keep zombies/mutants non-player controlled. This way, I can focus on just balancing human survivors against the rest of the game without having to worry about the implications of player-controlled zombies and mutants. I observed on another MUD that players in control of zombies would demonstrate behavior not very befitting of a zombie. Things like camping sources of water so that survivors would eventually die of thirst or deliberately traveling around and breaking every single door they find so that survivors will have no where to flee to.

Well,that may not be very appropriate for a zombie, on the grounds that zombies are supposed to be mindless. But it would be entirely appropriate behaviour for an intelligent or even semi-intelligent predator: lions ambush zebras at water-holes, and they're not that bright. Some of the mutants could easily have animal-level intelligence or even higher. I'd have thought playing a zombie would be interesting from an RP perspective, too.
01 Feb, 2010, David Haley wrote in the 17th comment:
Votes: 0
shasarak said:
I'd have thought playing a zombie would be interesting from an RP perspective, too.

Given the description of zombies in Kaeden's world, it seems like it would be rather like role-playing a magnet that only knows how to go find iron and clamp onto it. I have to confess that this doesn't sound terribly exciting to me.
01 Feb, 2010, Kaeden wrote in the 18th comment:
Votes: 0
I suppose players becoming somewhat intelligent mutants is a possibility. There would have to be rules to ensure that a player mutant doesn't decide to team up with his human buddies and acts the part properly. A number of commands would also have to be disabled. David is probably right; playing a normal zombie (correctly) wouldn't be all that much fun.
02 Feb, 2010, tphegley wrote in the 19th comment:
Votes: 0
I have messed around on Kaeden's mud and it's actually quite fun for what all is in it right now. It's definitely worth bashin in a few zombie heads. From what I've played, (I know it was nowhere near finished) there wasn't much of a chance of dying, but lots of zombie killing. I blew up a few zombies. Shot a few with a shotgun and even bashed some in the face.

I am kind of excited to see it more polished up.
03 Feb, 2010, shasarak wrote in the 20th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
Given the description of zombies in Kaeden's world, it seems like it would be rather like role-playing a magnet that only knows how to go find iron and clamp onto it. I have to confess that this doesn't sound terribly exciting to me.

The RP comes in when you allow subtle little flashes of the zombie's former personality and memory to show through in unexpected ways… split-second hesitation before biting your former spouse's brains out, etc. Or just in inventing ways to be gorily interesting - a zombie eating continuously despite having a hole blown in its stomach so that whatever it eats tumbles straight out onto the floor, before being picked up and swallowed again….
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