06 Jun, 2009, Midboss wrote in the 61st comment:
Votes: 0
Runter, are you saying you sloppily left an unfinished macro in your code?

Seems more like something a rookie, like, say, me 3 years ago, might've done…


Samson said:
Midboss said:
Psst, Samson. The name change.

Can I has it?


I'm gonna leave that to Davion or Kiasyn. Seems like something that should probably be thought on a bit more first before someone does it.


Awww. Where's the fun in being inaccurately labeled a thief without any ability to ever shake it if it's not reflected with a name change?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 62nd comment:
Votes: 0
The funny part is, with Samson, back when me and Kaiousama first started our first project that I wrote the mapper's original code on it was hosted on Arthmoor.


When me and Kaiousama had our falling out Kaiousama changed the shell password and purged the code. Samson was quite mad at both of us over the dispute, even if he doesn't remember it. And that was really where this code first originated from and how Kaiousama got it involved in FFC in the first place.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 63rd comment:
Votes: 0
Midboss said:
Runter, are you saying you sloppily left an unfinished macro in your code?

Seems more like something a rookie, like, say, me 3 years ago, might've done…


Samson said:
Midboss said:
Psst, Samson. The name change.

Can I has it?


I'm gonna leave that to Davion or Kiasyn. Seems like something that should probably be thought on a bit more first before someone does it.


Awww. Where's the fun in being inaccurately labeled a thief without any ability to ever shake it if it's not reflected with a name change?


Nope, seems like a rookie would do when I first wrote it WAY more than 3 year ago.
06 Jun, 2009, Guest wrote in the 64th comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
The funny part is, with Samson, back when me and Kaiousama first started our first project that I wrote the mapper's original code on it was hosted on Arthmoor.

When me and Kaiousama had our falling out Kaiousama changed the shell password and purged the code. Samson was quite mad at both of us over the dispute, even if he doesn't remember it. And that was really where this code first originated from and how Kaiousama got it involved in FFC in the first place.


Yeah, we'll have to settle for 2 out of 3 then. Since I remember you having hosted Feltain on Arthmoor and having seen some mention of your mapper code from that MUD on some other webpage I can't find now, but I don't recall the shell password shenanigans. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, just means I'm getting old :)
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 65th comment:
Votes: 0
Yeah, the mud wasn't called feltain back then. Can't remember the name. But anyways.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 66th comment:
Votes: 0
Runter said:
We're going to go ahead and dispel some of this myth about me caring about someone having the functionality of an automapper. I'm quiting FFC right now


Now there's seriously no need for that.

That comment of mine came purely from you asking what motivation you might have for wanting to see that taken down. You asked, and it got me thinking.

But as I said, I don't think you are trying to be malicious.

My main concern about working on that game wouldn't come from a conflict of interest about getting Midboss' upload taken down, but more along the lines of how you feel about someone running the game whose code isn't their's and who (to my knowledge) didn't have the permission of the code authors to run it. That's where I would be concerned about the "code thief" label being thrown about. But with the history you have with Kai and FFC, that might not be so much of an issue if you are basically working on stolen code that was originally stolen from you, but I digress.

I am, however, operating under the assumption that the version of the code that I have is the same version that is running now, and I know I got it from just some guy who emailed it to me, not anyone officially involved with the game, and I would expect that the current "owner" of FFC got it in the same manner. But, that doesn't really have anything to do with me, so its just me speculating. You'd probably have more information on that than I would.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 67th comment:
Votes: 0
To sum up for the last time.

I never ask for credit when I give people code or post snippets for the community. I even let them freely distribute it.
This isn't code I ever intended to post.
I asked for this code to be taken down a few days ago because of the principal of the matter.

To the reader of this out there:
How would YOU feel about this if it was you?

This makes me just never want to release anything for anyone. But I will.
Eventually I'll write a proper mapper to release. That was always the plan. I have no horse in the race. I don't run *Any* mud. Feltain has been down for well over 2 years.
So to sum it up, you can ask yourself why I would care. There are other 3x3 automap snippets out there. Why would I care about *this one snippet*?
Because I'm not lying. I just released the code for anyone to view and use or whatever. I just cannot stand a thief.
06 Jun, 2009, Hades_Kane wrote in the 68th comment:
Votes: 0
Good lord, I've spent the last 2 and a half hours in this thread…

If we're about done, I think I'll be heading to bed now.
06 Jun, 2009, Emmu wrote in the 69th comment:
Votes: 0
Question: Why is there such heated debate about a piece of code written somewhere between 3 and 9 years ago, depending on who you want to believe, and looking at Midboss's other uploaded snippets, everyone had two years at minimum to notice? Looking at registration dates, Hades, Runter, and Midboss have all been here since the site's inception, so it's not like Runter just joined and saw his stuff posted. So, what's changed? Why now?
06 Jun, 2009, Guest wrote in the 70th comment:
Votes: 0
Nature of the beast when there's an accusation of code theft. All sides involved in such disputes tend to get pretty vocal about it.
06 Jun, 2009, Emmu wrote in the 71st comment:
Votes: 0
I'm not asking why it's heated, I'm asking why NOW of all times? Why not when it was posted? Surly when it was posted originally, it must have had some kind of description. Nobody posts a snippet called "stick this in your mud and watch what happens". I know if I wrote a mapper, or a battle system, or really anything, and someone posted a competing product, I'd take a look at it to at least see what it can do.
06 Jun, 2009, Guest wrote in the 72nd comment:
Votes: 0
Can't answer that as I don't know why NOW instead of 3 years ago when it first got uploaded here. All indications are the initial dispute was taking place in private and ended up being aired here after Midboss made that rather vague opening post.
06 Jun, 2009, Emmu wrote in the 73rd comment:
Votes: 0
Runter is right about one thing. Code theft is indefensible. As in, you can't defend it. Not possible. There's no way to prove you didn't steal someone's code, short of printing it out and mailing it to yourself in a sealed envelope, and who would do that for a crappy little MUD snippet? I could have found this post in Runter's trash can and wrote it word for word. And THAT is why Mid isn't here, it's his word against Runter's, and Runter is apparently in 'high standing', whatever that means (it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the number of snippets he's released). The best his friends can hope to do is be character witnesses.

Runter doesn't actually have his mapper uploaded and has said he has no plans to release it. Since we don't have a reference, for all I and anyone else not privy to the old FFC's or Feltran's code know, Runter could have copied and pasted the code from Midboss's, claiming it's also in his own. I mean, he'd have to have access to the code to know if it was stolen in the first place. And if he is, he's not doing a very good job of it what with claiming it was his idea to make water blue. God isn't defending himself here either, but I think we all know who thought of that one first. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of C could make the same arguments Runter is, minus the ad hominem attacks.

It all comes down to one question: Why? Impressing people is the only reason anyone would steal credit for something that's free. Runter DID say he let Kaiousama use his code as long as he didn't distribute it. No reason to assume he wouldn't make the same deal with others if they asked/bribed him enough. So availability isn't much of a motive. Besides that if he stole it he certainly wouldn't be stupid enough to make it available on a public website. Very few people are that dumb. Even the Medevia guys were smart enough to keep their thievery under wraps, and the link in Samson's profile gives a good example of how dumb they were. You could say Midboss didn't care, but if he didn't care, why do it in the first place? Doesn't make sense.

Now, I don't know Runter and his history well enough to say what his motivation could be to steal Midboss's code (which is really what he's trying to do), but he put up some pretty high stakes here, and I think we need to start asking why. Because he can't stand a thief? What about those of us (mostly just me and Hades) who know for an absolute fact that Midboss had neither the motivation nor opportunity to steal it? What explanation do we get?

I know I'm coming into this thread late, but it can't be helped. I just find it so hard to believe anyone is buying this BS.
06 Jun, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 74th comment:
Votes: 0
Quote
Anyone who knows me knows what's the deal here.

Then either few people know you, or actually few people know what's going on here. It sounds like WW III except there are only like… well, three (maybe four) people involved. Seriously, I for one have no idea what everybody is on about other than lots of cries of "STOP THIEF" from all sides.

Midboss said:
Where's the fun in being inaccurately labeled a thief without any ability to ever shake it if it's not reflected with a name change?

You could always, you know, create a new user an' all that.
06 Jun, 2009, Emmu wrote in the 75th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
You could always, you know, create a new user an' all that.


But then he'd lose his post count! What's the fun in being falsely accused if people can't see you've obviously been here for 3 years?
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 76th comment:
Votes: 0
Emmu said:
Question: Why is there such heated debate about a piece of code written somewhere between 3 and 9 years ago, depending on who you want to believe, and looking at Midboss's other uploaded snippets, everyone had two years at minimum to notice? Looking at registration dates, Hades, Runter, and Midboss have all been here since the site's inception, so it's not like Runter just joined and saw his stuff posted. So, what's changed? Why now?


I don't just look at every snippet in the repository. I happened to look at this one by chance when I did. And it immediately ticked me off. Would you have been okay with it?
06 Jun, 2009, Asylumius wrote in the 77th comment:
Votes: 0
I think you guys just invented a new sport: Speed Trolling. We've had some really lame threads on here before, but 6 pages since midnight? I slept through the WHOLE flame war! <3 Internet.
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 78th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
Quote
Anyone who knows me knows what's the deal here.

Then either few people know you, or actually few people know what's going on here. It sounds like WW III except there are only like… well, three (maybe four) people involved. Seriously, I for one have no idea what everybody is on about other than lots of cries of "STOP THIEF" from all sides.

Midboss said:
Where's the fun in being inaccurately labeled a thief without any ability to ever shake it if it's not reflected with a name change?

You could always, you know, create a new user an' all that.


I don't mean I've told people in private what's going on. I mean that most people that know me know I'm not using this situation as was suggested: To try to get rival code removed. What a ridiculous suggestion.
06 Jun, 2009, Emmu wrote in the 79th comment:
Votes: 0
Why are you looking at 3 year old snippets?

And as long as you're here, I found another interesting bit: If FFC uses this mapper, this exact same mapper, why am I looking at grey and white waves? Sure there's some dark cyan in there, but last I checked white was W, not C
06 Jun, 2009, Runter wrote in the 80th comment:
Votes: 0
David Haley said:
Seriously, I for one have no idea what everybody is on about other than lots of cries of "STOP THIEF" from all sides.


It's more like one side who is in the wrong sheepishly bringing this onto the forum for a public dispute when the other party would have been willing to let it go. I tried to handle this in a classy way and would have been fine never having this thread created. Midboss brought this to the public, and he is guilty. So I just don't have much sympathy. I might not be able to dispel any doubt he can raise but like always, people can make up their own minds about who is telling the truth here.
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