12 Jul, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 2nd comment:
Are you basically trying to set up a playerless world simulation? I'm not sure I follow why you have quests, for example, if there are no players to complete them. Do you have more details on the project perhaps?
12 Jul, 2009, Runter wrote in the 3rd comment:
David Haley said:
Are you basically trying to set up a playerless world simulation? I'm not sure I follow why you have quests, for example, if there are no players to complete them. Do you have more details on the project perhaps?
I didn't get playerless out of any of that.
12 Jul, 2009, Runter wrote in the 4th comment:
Zen_Clark said:
The main purpose of the mud is to have the actual idea of mine embeded into a playable game
What's the idea you want to experiment with/research?
12 Jul, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 5th comment:
Perhaps I misinterpreted the statements about not targeting users and not having an open server as meaning playerless, instead of meaning possibly that the users will be there but not observed, and that the server will be by invitation instead of open to the public.
Even so, the impression I'm getting is that the idea is to set up a simulation of some sort, but I'm still curious to hear more.
Even so, the impression I'm getting is that the idea is to set up a simulation of some sort, but I'm still curious to hear more.
12 Jul, 2009, Zen_Clark wrote in the 6th comment:
(Sorry for the ambiguous wording of the post, I made that fairly early in the morning.)
What I mean is that by using the format that a mud uses to organize the virtual world I hope to flesh out the universe and give more personality to it then what I could otherwise write.
The ability to have a complete world that one can walk around in, and see both NPCs and player interactions the general feel of the place is increased to a level that I would not be
able to create in another format.
Just like a traditional P&P rpg and their source-guides give more information about the setting's background then what any single book or movie that it is based off of provides, I hope
that the mud would support even more background information. When writting a book or short story, one would have to come up with detailed descriptions of the places that the
characters arrive at, but with the game all of the basic grunt work is already made and only needs to be adapted. The minor characters like the shop keepers and gangs are also
premade.
The game is designed to be playable, and if it does get hosted it will open. The quest are there to create more 'flow' in the world. So along with having things like rooms and people done,
the menial task and general culture would be fleshed out by the quests.
The setting/world/idea is based around a form of "Civil Rights" movement, but that instead of the minority group promoting equality, the situation (threat of genocide) caused them to support the opposite. The "Seperation Era"
created a split between the human race into two different sub-species of human, with the newly independent people creating a colony on Mars and thus completely dividing the gene-pool.
The game takes place on Earth, with the central theme of the game being the tension and interaction between the standard humans (nertips) and the break-offs (austypes) in a near-to-far cyberpunk style future.
Hopefully this makes sense….
What I mean is that by using the format that a mud uses to organize the virtual world I hope to flesh out the universe and give more personality to it then what I could otherwise write.
The ability to have a complete world that one can walk around in, and see both NPCs and player interactions the general feel of the place is increased to a level that I would not be
able to create in another format.
Just like a traditional P&P rpg and their source-guides give more information about the setting's background then what any single book or movie that it is based off of provides, I hope
that the mud would support even more background information. When writting a book or short story, one would have to come up with detailed descriptions of the places that the
characters arrive at, but with the game all of the basic grunt work is already made and only needs to be adapted. The minor characters like the shop keepers and gangs are also
premade.
The game is designed to be playable, and if it does get hosted it will open. The quest are there to create more 'flow' in the world. So along with having things like rooms and people done,
the menial task and general culture would be fleshed out by the quests.
The setting/world/idea is based around a form of "Civil Rights" movement, but that instead of the minority group promoting equality, the situation (threat of genocide) caused them to support the opposite. The "Seperation Era"
created a split between the human race into two different sub-species of human, with the newly independent people creating a colony on Mars and thus completely dividing the gene-pool.
The game takes place on Earth, with the central theme of the game being the tension and interaction between the standard humans (nertips) and the break-offs (austypes) in a near-to-far cyberpunk style future.
Hopefully this makes sense….
13 Jul, 2009, Runter wrote in the 7th comment:
Well, good luck with your project. I'm normally suspicious about the validity of the data mined from these types of models, but I wish you the best.
13 Jul, 2009, Zen_Clark wrote in the 8th comment:
Well, it would not mean much to say the datas suspicious because, by book I really meant novel. The game is just to
see if the setting could actually be made and if it was interesting. All that the game is is just a plotless model of the
world for conworlding, something that people have been trying to do for a while ( basillicus) but they never really
succeed in finishing it because they lack the testbed/prototype to see if it would actually work they way the've written it out.
The game is supposed to be a plotless testbed for the universe that other plot driven forms of media (short stories, other
more linear games, short animated shows, etc…) can use.
see if the setting could actually be made and if it was interesting. All that the game is is just a plotless model of the
world for conworlding, something that people have been trying to do for a while ( basillicus) but they never really
succeed in finishing it because they lack the testbed/prototype to see if it would actually work they way the've written it out.
The game is supposed to be a plotless testbed for the universe that other plot driven forms of media (short stories, other
more linear games, short animated shows, etc…) can use.
13 Jul, 2009, Zen_Clark wrote in the 9th comment:
It seems that when it comes to building worlds, muds have a great level of progress not found in any book or wiki.
It's common for muds to advertise having 1-2K rooms with tons of quest and growing activity with living clans and guilds,
but nowhere else comes even a little bit close to that level of content. With a few years of good work and a good codebase,
it would take (from what I've seen to be possible) very little to recreate something like the complete Star Wars expanded
universe, but no one book or RPG sourceguide could come close to that.
The quest are designed to show in-world actions with orginizations like bountyhunters, trafficking, freelance mercenaries,
and other things that a novel or game would want to use. A book or a wiki like the one previously linked to might say,
"There is a crime Syndicate called X that hires people for Y", but with the mud and quest system that could actually be
shown with real examples. some people play muds because they like books, why not make a mud for those who want to
write books?
People make fan-muds based off of stories and games; all I'm wanting is to see if this idea could be used for the opposite
purpose, to write a story or game based off of the content in the mud.
It's common for muds to advertise having 1-2K rooms with tons of quest and growing activity with living clans and guilds,
but nowhere else comes even a little bit close to that level of content. With a few years of good work and a good codebase,
it would take (from what I've seen to be possible) very little to recreate something like the complete Star Wars expanded
universe, but no one book or RPG sourceguide could come close to that.
The quest are designed to show in-world actions with orginizations like bountyhunters, trafficking, freelance mercenaries,
and other things that a novel or game would want to use. A book or a wiki like the one previously linked to might say,
"There is a crime Syndicate called X that hires people for Y", but with the mud and quest system that could actually be
shown with real examples. some people play muds because they like books, why not make a mud for those who want to
write books?
People make fan-muds based off of stories and games; all I'm wanting is to see if this idea could be used for the opposite
purpose, to write a story or game based off of the content in the mud.
13 Jul, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 10th comment:
There are many games where players write "fan fiction" or other forms of stories based off of the MUD. Sometimes the stories are even "canon", in the sense that they are sanctioned recitals of events in the world. My MUD's website (Legends of the Darkstone, linked in my sig) has examples of stories.
Is your project different in the idea, or in the length? (Most of the stories I've seen for MUDs tend to be fairly short, not exceeding short story length.)
Is your project different in the idea, or in the length? (Most of the stories I've seen for MUDs tend to be fairly short, not exceeding short story length.)
13 Jul, 2009, Zen_Clark wrote in the 11th comment:
I intend to write a full size novel/short-story when done. I also intend to have enough of a setting to be able to create something on the lines of the original SNES rpgs.
It don't really enjoy the simpler fan fiction, and IMO anything shorter then the size of an actual short story does not deserve to be self standing and should be within
the setting and not apart from it. I'm wanting to eventually write something more real, something that could actually be published if so desired.
I'm wanting the mud to be something that could theoretically compete with the Startrek, Star-Wars, Middle-earth, and D&D campaign settings
(Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc …) in terms of potential usage.
I don't know if it will work, and that is why I'm sticking to the term "testbed."
It don't really enjoy the simpler fan fiction, and IMO anything shorter then the size of an actual short story does not deserve to be self standing and should be within
the setting and not apart from it. I'm wanting to eventually write something more real, something that could actually be published if so desired.
I'm wanting the mud to be something that could theoretically compete with the Startrek, Star-Wars, Middle-earth, and D&D campaign settings
(Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc …) in terms of potential usage.
I don't know if it will work, and that is why I'm sticking to the term "testbed."
13 Jul, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 12th comment:
Sorry, I wasn't trying to figure out which stories you liked in general, but rather what your general idea/goal was. Are you basically trying to write stories like that, but much longer and perhaps more stand-alone?
These all have massive amounts of work put into them. It's been something that's bugged me a little in your posts: you seem to be a little dismissive of the scope of some of these universes and the amount of information available in source books etc. What will allow your project to create a universe large/rich enough to rival the likes of those you cite, some of which have more novels written than you could count on your hands?
Zen Clark said:
I'm wanting the mud to be something that could theoretically compete with the Startrek, Star-Wars, Middle-earth, and D&D campaign settings
(Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc …) in terms of potential usage.
(Dragonlance, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, etc …) in terms of potential usage.
These all have massive amounts of work put into them. It's been something that's bugged me a little in your posts: you seem to be a little dismissive of the scope of some of these universes and the amount of information available in source books etc. What will allow your project to create a universe large/rich enough to rival the likes of those you cite, some of which have more novels written than you could count on your hands?
13 Jul, 2009, Zen_Clark wrote in the 13th comment:
Time mainly, and the fact that I have most of the core concepts already finished in my head.
All that I would really have to do is start working on it and see where it would go.
The setting is something that is easily worked with and expanded, with little to really think
about past some of the specifics that could be made in a very short time. Both main cultures
featured in the setting are already represented in real life, and the genre is something that
does not require as much "originality" like some of the magic systems.
The fact that it is based in the future, with no actual alien races, and technologies that have
already been worked out in the theoretical stage within both books, medical research, and
in practise.
World building is something that I have played with for many years, and I'm definitely not
short on the level of creative skill needed to flesh things out in a decent amount of time.
The novels themselves only create and show things in their settings that they need at the time, with
my project that I'm working on I would be able to work on bits and pieces of everything. Building in a
mud provides a quicker and more efficient route of work then working on a single book or sourceguide.
I'm not saying that the game alone would be able to out do everything present in the other setting's work,
just that using a mud would be a much faster and a more unlimitless method of representing what I have,
and will have during its development.
Remember, I'm not trying to seem/be arrogant;I'm not guaranteeing anything, I'm not even sure if it will work.
My wording is as precise as I can get it, and I try to say no certainties.
Just a testbed for the idea, disbelieve it all you want and ridicule it all you wish, but you never know the
results of something until it is done or attempted and that is all I'm trying to do, attempt it.
__________________
The book and/or game that I'm wanting to work on, if the mud happens to bring to me what I'm looking for, would be
a lot longer (at least 25-50+ pages) then most of the muds' fanfiction, and as stand alone as any off the shelf book.
By saying ealier which stories I like, I was trying to explain what I was wanting to do. I won't write or make
something that I don't like myself, I don't give myself any slack. I do my best to measure myself and my
work by the same method that I do for everything and everyone else.
I'm not trying to write something targeted at fans of the original source like most fanfiction is, but something
that the average science fiction reader would enjoy without ever having to know what a mud even is.
All that I would really have to do is start working on it and see where it would go.
The setting is something that is easily worked with and expanded, with little to really think
about past some of the specifics that could be made in a very short time. Both main cultures
featured in the setting are already represented in real life, and the genre is something that
does not require as much "originality" like some of the magic systems.
The fact that it is based in the future, with no actual alien races, and technologies that have
already been worked out in the theoretical stage within both books, medical research, and
in practise.
World building is something that I have played with for many years, and I'm definitely not
short on the level of creative skill needed to flesh things out in a decent amount of time.
The novels themselves only create and show things in their settings that they need at the time, with
my project that I'm working on I would be able to work on bits and pieces of everything. Building in a
mud provides a quicker and more efficient route of work then working on a single book or sourceguide.
I'm not saying that the game alone would be able to out do everything present in the other setting's work,
just that using a mud would be a much faster and a more unlimitless method of representing what I have,
and will have during its development.
Remember, I'm not trying to seem/be arrogant;I'm not guaranteeing anything, I'm not even sure if it will work.
My wording is as precise as I can get it, and I try to say no certainties.
Just a testbed for the idea, disbelieve it all you want and ridicule it all you wish, but you never know the
results of something until it is done or attempted and that is all I'm trying to do, attempt it.
__________________
The book and/or game that I'm wanting to work on, if the mud happens to bring to me what I'm looking for, would be
a lot longer (at least 25-50+ pages) then most of the muds' fanfiction, and as stand alone as any off the shelf book.
By saying ealier which stories I like, I was trying to explain what I was wanting to do. I won't write or make
something that I don't like myself, I don't give myself any slack. I do my best to measure myself and my
work by the same method that I do for everything and everyone else.
I'm not trying to write something targeted at fans of the original source like most fanfiction is, but something
that the average science fiction reader would enjoy without ever having to know what a mud even is.
18 Jul, 2009, kiasyn wrote in the 14th comment:
i don't think anything like this has been done before, but it sounds cool, keep us posted.
19 Jul, 2009, Zen_Clark wrote in the 15th comment:
I will be posting here as soon as I have something worth releasing/annoucing, if anything.
Random Picks
The main purpose of the mud is to have the actual idea of mine embeded into a playable game, complete with quests, NPCs, combat and other standard gameplay elements in order to create a form of model on how a place/world with the theme would work. I'm planning on eventually making a book or something similar when I'm finished and if I get the results I'm looking for.
It is a research mud, but the game itself is the experimental target and not the users or anything 'real'.
I was just wondering if anyone has done/seen anything similar and what came out of it if so.