17 Dec, 2009, Tyche wrote in the 41st comment:
Votes: 0
quixadhal said:
I know nothing about that, and came in after the fur was already flying. I am, however, curious to see the result of a direct, no-smack-talk, no wombling, no hyperbole, comparison of the three clients on the table.
17 Dec, 2009, Twisol wrote in the 42nd comment:
Seems that it's not possible to rebind Up. I'm not sure whether that's because of MUSHclient's own code, or how the Windows GUI elements used work; I think it's probably a combination of the two. However, it does appear to be possible to re-bind Alt+Up.
Also, you just proved that it's not possible to make Up do anything other than command history.
Also, you just proved that it's not possible to make Up do anything other than command history.
17 Dec, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 43rd comment:
Actually, you can bind "Up" to do things, you just have to turn off "use arrow keys to traverse history" first.
This worked:
Anyhow, I'm not sure Tyche is having the same conversation that we are, so I'm not sure it's worth spending much more time on this. This entire line of argument is utterly irrelevant to the original point made. He's responding to some other point, not what was actually said.
This worked:
AcceleratorTo("Up", "Note 'oops'", 12)Anyhow, I'm not sure Tyche is having the same conversation that we are, so I'm not sure it's worth spending much more time on this. This entire line of argument is utterly irrelevant to the original point made. He's responding to some other point, not what was actually said.
17 Dec, 2009, Twisol wrote in the 44th comment:
. . .
David, why didn't you mention that before? :mad: That's exactly the kind of GUI toggle I was talking about. *looks for it*
Tyche, go to Game -> Configure -> Commands, click the Keyboard Preferences button. There's an "Arrow keys traverse history" option that should be checked by default. You can use that to enable/disable command history. Is that simple enough for you?
David, why didn't you mention that before? :mad: That's exactly the kind of GUI toggle I was talking about. *looks for it*
Tyche, go to Game -> Configure -> Commands, click the Keyboard Preferences button. There's an "Arrow keys traverse history" option that should be checked by default. You can use that to enable/disable command history. Is that simple enough for you?
17 Dec, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 45th comment:
who won?
17 Dec, 2009, Chris Bailey wrote in the 46th comment:
Me.
17 Dec, 2009, Tyche wrote in the 47th comment:
Twisol said:
. . .
Tyche, go to Game -> Configure -> Commands, click the Keyboard Preferences button. There's an "Arrow keys traverse history" option that should be checked by default. You can use that to enable/disable command history. Is that simple enough for you?
Tyche, go to Game -> Configure -> Commands, click the Keyboard Preferences button. There's an "Arrow keys traverse history" option that should be checked by default. You can use that to enable/disable command history. Is that simple enough for you?
So the answer is…
Shift+Ctrl-6 Tab / Enter Alt+0 Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Enter Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Space Enter Tab Enter /Accelerator ("Up", "/DoCommand 'PreviousCommand'") Enter
And it required a dozen posts, several mistrials, and I assume several people were poring through an obscure manual to find the correct arcane incantation.
17 Dec, 2009, Twisol wrote in the 48th comment:
Seriously, Tyche? Seriously?
The "mistrials" aren't all mistrials, they probably would have worked perfectly well had we gone to the trouble of doing it. It required a dozen posts because you were acting like a dunce. No, you're still acting like a dunce.
I'm done talking to you.
EDIT: I can't miss the opportunity to point out that this is my 42nd post though. :biggrin:
EDIT 2: In retrospect I apologize for my rudeness. Obviously this really, really gets to me.
The "mistrials" aren't all mistrials, they probably would have worked perfectly well had we gone to the trouble of doing it. It required a dozen posts because you were acting like a dunce. No, you're still acting like a dunce.
I'm done talking to you.
EDIT: I can't miss the opportunity to point out that this is my 42nd post though. :biggrin:
EDIT 2: In retrospect I apologize for my rudeness. Obviously this really, really gets to me.
17 Dec, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 49th comment:
Quote
EDIT 2: In retrospect I apologize for my rudeness. Obviously this really, really gets to me.
And let this be a lesson to you never to…um, that you should always…uh…
What was this all about, anyway?
17 Dec, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 50th comment:
Tyche said:
And it required a dozen posts, several mistrials, and I assume several people were poring through an obscure manual to find the correct arcane incantation.
If only you'd seen the secret gathering of Great Wizards of MUSHclient that it took to petition the gods themselves to divine the correct method of conversing with you. I tell you, the whole hidden cabal from the shadows got involved. It was quite something.
17 Dec, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 51st comment:
Tyche said:
So the answer is…
Shift+Ctrl-6 Tab / Enter Alt+0 Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Enter Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Space Enter Tab Enter /Accelerator ("Up", "/DoCommand 'PreviousCommand'") Enter
Shift+Ctrl-6 Tab / Enter Alt+0 Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Enter Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Space Enter Tab Enter /Accelerator ("Up", "/DoCommand 'PreviousCommand'") Enter
I'm not sure if you're trying to be facetious here or make some sort of clever point. That said, you're trying to treat a screwdriver like a hammer. No wonder it's so ridiculous. Almost anything can be made to be utterly absurd if approached from the right (or wrong, as it were) angle.
We could make many funeys about how ridiculous it would be to type things into a CLI client if you had to use the mouse to drag and drop characters onto the screen, too. Oh look, aren't we all so smart and clever. Hurr durr durr.
17 Dec, 2009, quixadhal wrote in the 52nd comment:
David Haley said:
There's something interesting about asking questions that have no need for answers, isn't there?
Yes, yes there is. :alien:
Hooray! A direct comparison is finally possible!
Tinyfugue's arcane command is /def -ib'^Tinyfugue's arcane command is /def -ib'^[OA' = /DOKEY RECALLB Enter
Tintin's arcane command is #macro {\eOA} {#cursor history prev} Enter
Mushclient's arcane command is Shift+Ctrl-6 Tab / Enter Alt+0 Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab
Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Enter Tab Tab Tab Tab Tab Space Enter Tab
Enter /Accelerator ("Up", "/DoCommand 'PreviousCommand'") Enter [/code]
Will that be useful for anyone trying to decide between clients? Nah. Will the future legions of Mushclient be thankful for the unveiling of one of their Great Mysteries? Doubt it. BUT, we do have a definitive answer, and can now all enjoy our beers a little more.
17 Dec, 2009, Twisol wrote in the 53rd comment:
More like:
Tinyfugue's arcane command is /def -ib'^Tinyfugue's arcane command is /def -ib'^[OA' = /DOKEY RECALLB Enter
Tintin's arcane command is #macro {\eOA} {#cursor history prev} Enter
Mushclient's arcane command is /SetOption("arrows_change_history", 1)[/code]
Yes, it took a little more research than normal, but this is for the typed command required. The dialog-based toggle can be found with just a little exploration by following logically-named buttons and menus (Game -> Configure -> Commands -> Keyboard Preferences -> "Arrow keys traverse history").
EDIT: Ugh, Quix, fix the formatting :thinking:
17 Dec, 2009, Runter wrote in the 54th comment:
David Haley said:
If only you'd seen the secret gathering of Great Wizards of MUSHclient that it took to petition the gods themselves to divine the correct method of conversing with you. I tell you, the whole hidden cabal from the shadows got involved. It was quite something.
Tyche said:
And it required a dozen posts, several mistrials, and I assume several people were poring through an obscure manual to find the correct arcane incantation.
If only you'd seen the secret gathering of Great Wizards of MUSHclient that it took to petition the gods themselves to divine the correct method of conversing with you. I tell you, the whole hidden cabal from the shadows got involved. It was quite something.
That.
17 Dec, 2009, Tonitrus wrote in the 55th comment:
It's nice to see some sarcasm and hyperbole around here for a change.
Literalism is boring.
Literalism is boring.
17 Dec, 2009, Tyche wrote in the 56th comment:
David Haley said:
I'm not sure if you're trying to be facetious here or make some sort of clever point. That said, you're trying to treat a screwdriver like a hammer. No wonder it's so ridiculous. Almost anything can be made to be utterly absurd if approached from the right (or wrong, as it were) angle.
Did you not post this nonsense?
Quote
See, that's one of the problems with command-line clients: a lot of stuff is possible, if only you know the right (relatively arcane) incantation to make the up arrow recall history…
Yes, I thought it was a completely inane or asinine comment. I don't see any reason why I or anyone else should be required to engage you in arguing your ever-morphing positions or statements. Rather I simply insisted on an answer to same question the OP asked in regards to a popular GUI client to illustrate the absurdity of the statement.
I have no wish to debate who is a "dunce", "buffoon", "troll", nor some invention of "client reality" or "sane defaults". Nor do I wish to engage in extensive discussion, analysis or psychological profiling of posters on or off IMC. That I or anyone cannot help but read endless reams of that sort of shit on front page is distraction enough.
18 Dec, 2009, Koron wrote in the 57th comment:
Your analogy is ludicrous. With a GUI mud client, you can click around in the preferences until you find the solution with minimal effort. In order to do the same thing with these CLI dealies we've seen discussed, you have to either actually know the command sequence or look for a solution external to the client.
Let's see this broken down some more:
GUI: A series of mouse clicks can solve your problem.
CLI: An intensive google search or RTFM session can tell you how to solve it, but chances are there will be little documentation explaining how exactly to do the thing you want.
Yes, the second half of my CLI statement may be true for GUI clients, but the fact is simply that you don't need the same level of documentation there.
Let's see this broken down some more:
GUI: A series of mouse clicks can solve your problem.
CLI: An intensive google search or RTFM session can tell you how to solve it, but chances are there will be little documentation explaining how exactly to do the thing you want.
Yes, the second half of my CLI statement may be true for GUI clients, but the fact is simply that you don't need the same level of documentation there.
18 Dec, 2009, Brinson wrote in the 58th comment:
I hate myself for creating this beast of a thread.
18 Dec, 2009, Davion wrote in the 59th comment:
Koron said:
GUI: A series of mouse clicks can solve your problem.
Considering the amount of effort involved in trying to figure out this problem, I'd be inclined to disagree with this. Considering Twisol's involvement with MUSHClient, the very fact I can quote him on this shows that it required a bit more then a series of mouse clicks to solve his problem.
Twisol said:
Yes, it took a little more research than normal, but this is for the typed command required. The dialog-based toggle can be found with just a little exploration by following logically-named buttons and menus (Game -> Configure -> Commands -> Keyboard Preferences -> "Arrow keys traverse history").
18 Dec, 2009, Twisol wrote in the 60th comment:
No, the command is just another way to do what the GUI toggle does. It's much easier to do the GUI toggle, in my opinion; one reason is that you only have to remember a location or a series of steps rather than an arbitrary command/function/value. The only reason this problem took so much effort was because Tyche's question was really rather baffling at first. I didn't do much further research, so my previous solutions (while perfectly valid, might I mention) were not optimal. When I finally decided to figure out where the command-line access to the option was, yes, I had to RTFM, but it wasn't a long, drawn out process - it took maybe five minutes.
What you quoted was just me saying "Okay, bird-brains, there's your command, but it's a lot easier to go through the menus in this order." ('bird-brains' is just the first humorous insult I picked off the top of my head, just like 'dunce').
EDIT: Admittedly… there are some features of MUSHclient, such as TCP keepalives, which don't have a direct GUI analog. But given the breadth of MUSHclient's configuration dialogs, there aren't many, and they're usually more arcane than mere command history.
What you quoted was just me saying "Okay, bird-brains, there's your command, but it's a lot easier to go through the menus in this order." ('bird-brains' is just the first humorous insult I picked off the top of my head, just like 'dunce').
EDIT: Admittedly… there are some features of MUSHclient, such as TCP keepalives, which don't have a direct GUI analog. But given the breadth of MUSHclient's configuration dialogs, there aren't many, and they're usually more arcane than mere command history.
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