02 Aug, 2009, Dean wrote in the 22nd comment:
Hades_Kane said:
You know, maybe if everyone would quit goading the administration here with the ridiculously childish "nb4lock lol roflcopter so 1337!" bullshit, then maybe some of this discussion could actually be taken seriously.
It wouldn't surprise me the least bit if every instance of that is looked as little more than a dare for the threads to be locked. It's childish, inane, and is in no way constructive. If you want to be treated like adults, try acting like one. Every person and every post that is containing this crap looks like just a troll post aimed at goading the administration.
As far as "another site" feel free to take your discussions to The MUD Connector, where there is next to no moderation and tends to be the safe haven for those who don't like moderation and want to be free from "tyrants." There is an expected minimum level of behavior and conduct here that I think has become pretty clear over the years, and I think the bullying that we saw with Dubstack, Samson's numerous warnings about leaving that be and not dragging it into other threads being ignored, him being taunted, and this continued "lol nb4lock" crap that we've seen over the last couple of weeks doesn't speak very well of this community, and makes us look like a bunch of immature jackass jackals that will pick on someone both because we can and because there was plenty of backup.
TMC isn't quite the cesspool that it used to be… things have gotten a lot better there (even if quite a bit slower) and I like to think I might have had a bit of a positive influence in that regard, but that's still the go-to place if you want to be able to say just about whatever you want in regards to the MUD Community. Mudbytes has, since its inception, been largely about trying to keep a certain level of decency upheld and I can honestly say that we, as its users, haven't been upholding our end of that partnership.
You want to leave because you can't bully another poster or because threads get locked after the Admins were being goaded and/or ignored on their repeated requests to drop a topic? That's fine by me, I won't miss it.
Maybe we should all consider taking a step back, let cooler heads prevail, and really take a look at the conduct over the last couple of weeks.
It wouldn't surprise me the least bit if every instance of that is looked as little more than a dare for the threads to be locked. It's childish, inane, and is in no way constructive. If you want to be treated like adults, try acting like one. Every person and every post that is containing this crap looks like just a troll post aimed at goading the administration.
As far as "another site" feel free to take your discussions to The MUD Connector, where there is next to no moderation and tends to be the safe haven for those who don't like moderation and want to be free from "tyrants." There is an expected minimum level of behavior and conduct here that I think has become pretty clear over the years, and I think the bullying that we saw with Dubstack, Samson's numerous warnings about leaving that be and not dragging it into other threads being ignored, him being taunted, and this continued "lol nb4lock" crap that we've seen over the last couple of weeks doesn't speak very well of this community, and makes us look like a bunch of immature jackass jackals that will pick on someone both because we can and because there was plenty of backup.
TMC isn't quite the cesspool that it used to be… things have gotten a lot better there (even if quite a bit slower) and I like to think I might have had a bit of a positive influence in that regard, but that's still the go-to place if you want to be able to say just about whatever you want in regards to the MUD Community. Mudbytes has, since its inception, been largely about trying to keep a certain level of decency upheld and I can honestly say that we, as its users, haven't been upholding our end of that partnership.
You want to leave because you can't bully another poster or because threads get locked after the Admins were being goaded and/or ignored on their repeated requests to drop a topic? That's fine by me, I won't miss it.
Maybe we should all consider taking a step back, let cooler heads prevail, and really take a look at the conduct over the last couple of weeks.
HK speaks much sense here.
02 Aug, 2009, Koron wrote in the 23rd comment:
Hades_Kane said:
If you want to be treated like adults, try acting like one.
I d agree with this, but I don't agree with the insinuation that it is only the people goading the administration who are failing to act with maturity.
Hades_Kane said:
Mudbytes has, since its inception, been largely about trying to keep a certain level of decency upheld and I can honestly say that we, as its users, haven't been upholding our end of that partnership.
Ditto to the above. I do think that, much like raising a child, there is only a certain point to which intelligent grown-up reasoning can be used. Regretfully, I do not feel that point was reached before the iron fist moved in. The iron fist has a place in moderation, but that place ought not be not the first step.
Hades_Kane said:
Maybe we should all consider taking a step back, let cooler heads prevail . . .
QFT.
I don't know about the other half of this sentence; I've not been aware of any long lasting hot headedness. As long as this reflection leads to an actual resolution (rather than simply slapping a band aid on a recurring problem), we can all have happy fun time. I hear we've got a brewer local who can bring us beer!
02 Aug, 2009, Davion wrote in the 24th comment:
FWIW, Dubstack was doing that intentionally to get a rise out of you guys. He was trolling and warned. Making comments, like the one made else where in the forum, is encouraging his behavior. Not what we want to happen. And this is the reason for the initial warnings.
Then its a good thing he posted -5- times before finally bringing down the iron fist ;).
Edit: Btw Hades_Kane. Great post! 5 stars :D
Koron said:
The iron fist has a place in moderation, but that place ought not be not the first step.
Then its a good thing he posted -5- times before finally bringing down the iron fist ;).
Edit: Btw Hades_Kane. Great post! 5 stars :D
02 Aug, 2009, Chris Bailey wrote in the 25th comment:
Dub was doing that for sure. I spoke with him on a few occasions and he was nothing like what his posts suggested.
02 Aug, 2009, Koron wrote in the 26th comment:
Davion said:
Then its a good thing he posted -5- times before finally bringing down the iron fist ;).
Oooh, owned. :)
02 Aug, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 27th comment:
When you're talking to somebody who has said that he's not going to be moderating anymore, surely you will agree that it's hard to tell the difference between somebody's opinion and an official administrative warning. I'm inferring that from now on we should be taking things Samson says as official MB positions. And this is of course a separate issue from the question of why all of this constitutes an offense in the first place.
02 Aug, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 28th comment:
HK said:
ridiculously childish "nb4lock lol roflcopter so 1337!" bullshit
Lighten up, Francis.
HK said:
It's childish, inane, and is in no way constructive.
Au contraire! It is humor, and if there is one thing that is
deadly to brick-headed thuggish admin-cudgel wielding it's
laughing at it.
HK said:
and this continued "lol nb4lock" crap that we've seen over the last couple of weeks doesn't speak very well of this community
Why you mad tho?
Asylumius said:
I've taken a very brief look at what's new and said, "Nope, screw it." and left.
As opposed to your normal behavior which is…?
Asylumius said:
When people act this way it makes me simply not care enough to pay attention to MB or want to administer it properly, which at this point, would be doing nothing more than deleting posts like the one HK described.
If that's really your idea of good adminship, I'm glad you're
shirking your duties.
DavidBailey said:
When you're talking to somebody who has said that he's not going to be moderating anymore
It would be nice to know why he's moderating despite saying he wouldn't.
several people said:
blah blah goading blah blah
Get it straight, folks. A good admin isn't goaded into shit. She deals
with things justly, with respect for the community, and in accordance
with rules*. Samson doesn't get off the hook with this "goaded" business.
If he felt he was going to use his admin tools out of impulse, he should
have just put them down, as he said he would.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
*And when she fails, she owns up to it and makes up for it.
02 Aug, 2009, Davion wrote in the 29th comment:
DavidHaley said:
And this is of course a separate issue from the question of why all of this constitutes an offense in the first place.
Because you trolled a troll and he asked you (nicely) to stop. Dubstack can still post here, and saying that the average drunk person can communicate more effectively than he can sober is a jab at him (especially when you knew he was doing it intentionally). Regardless of how deserving he is or not, you still shouldn't do it.
02 Aug, 2009, Davion wrote in the 30th comment:
Cratylus said:
If he felt he was going to use his admin tools out of impulse…
Good thing he posted 5 times before impulsively locking the thread. :P
02 Aug, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 31st comment:
I don't think I "trolled a troll" anymore than anybody trolls anybody when mentioning past events of the sort. Shall we start saying that Samson is trolling Locke and Vryce due to the omnipresent goading in his sig? Of course not – that would be ridiculous. So let's try to avoid double standards. Besides, I'm not sure how it's a jab at anybody to comment on typing errors they were making intentionally…?
Regardless, that doesn't change anything of the first bit of my post that you left out.
Regardless, that doesn't change anything of the first bit of my post that you left out.
02 Aug, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 32nd comment:
Davion said:
Good thing he posted 5 times before impulsively locking the thread. :P
Good thing we had no way of knowing if we were talking to Samson-the-real-moderator-giving-us-official-"warnings" or Samson-the-admin-who-said-he-wouldn't-moderate-again.
02 Aug, 2009, Kline wrote in the 33rd comment:
Davion said:
Good thing he posted 5 times before impulsively locking the thread. :P
After you and he both said he'd not be taking a role in moderating? Posting: Ok, fine, everyone here is obviously more than welcome to post and discuss things. Even HK has taken a similar "admin" tone above with asking people to police themselves better, no problem there either. Locking: Doesn't this cross the line into moderating?
02 Aug, 2009, Cratylus wrote in the 34th comment:
Davion said:
Because you trolled a troll and he asked you (nicely) to stop.
DavidHaley said:
And this is of course a separate issue from the question of why all of this constitutes an offense in the first place.
Because you trolled a troll and he asked you (nicely) to stop.
Dude! I agree Samson is a troll but I'm not sure you're supposed to just say it like that.
Davion said:
Dubstack can still post here, and saying that the average drunk person can communicate more effectively than he can sober is a jab at him (especially when you knew he was doing it intentionally). Regardless of how deserving he is or not, you still shouldn't do it.
Let me get this straight. If I say DavidBailey is an arrogant uptight know it all on a 10 story high horse,
I'm gonna get a thread locked? If I suggest Tyche is a sadistic ballbreaker with more bile than manners,
that's gonna merit some hot threadlockin action? How bout HK's head in the clouds and lips on yer ass?
Or my charming wit and rakish good looks? All those things are true, as well as what DavidBailey said
DavidHaley said:
Well, presumably, if you're able to make it to the forums and click accurately enough on links and reply buttons, you can type, spell, conjugate and in general speak English at least better than Dubby does.
That ain't no troll, my bros. That's straight up 411.
I want you to consider this for real, Davion. You're saying there's no ribbing allowed. I know
you're prolly too drunk to care how dumb that sounds, but it sounds pretty dumb. I suggest
you reconsider this position in the morning.
-Crat
http://lpmuds.net
02 Aug, 2009, Lobotomy wrote in the 35th comment:
Hades_Kane said:
As far as "another site" feel free to take your discussions to The MUD Connector, where there is next to no moderation and tends to be the safe haven for those who don't like moderation and want to be free from "tyrants."
You misunderstand me. I don't have a problem with Mudbytes, having moderators, or moderation (in general). What bothers me is the hostile stance Samson tends to take on the matter, and now once again, that he is even still moderating at all. I suggested an alternate site as being the logical means by which all the great things I like about Mudbytes might continue on, only without having Samson still holding a position of authority. I'd rather not go back to using TMC as my primary MUD forum to post at, and I resent your suggestion that I should.
David Haley said:
When you're talking to somebody who has said that he's not going to be moderating anymore, surely you will agree that it's hard to tell the difference between somebody's opinion and an official administrative warning. I'm inferring that from now on we should be taking things Samson says as official MB positions. And this is of course a separate issue from the question of why all of this constitutes an offense in the first place.
Assuming exactly that seems to be the only logical course of action anymore. I'm tired of being told one thing, only to see something different. I am referring to what I was told by Davion when I last brought up the Samson/Moderator issue via a string of PM's, after this thread got locked. The following was said in the last PM:
Davion said:
It definitely wasn't a lie. Samson has agreed to stay out of moderation. There was also no policy shift. What happened is, users went to Samson complaining about me (apparently I stepped over some line when it came to dealing with Banner.) and one thing led to another. I guess the onus is on me not to screw up again so something like this never happens again.
Lobotomy said:
You're still not getting it. I'm not against people being helped. I'm against administrators literally lying to my face:
Assuming that it wasn't a lie at the time, and there was then some sort of policy shift setting Samson as being involved in moderating again, don't you goddamn think we deserve to hear about it? I don't think it's fair in the slightest that you say something, things change and we don't hear of it, then when someone, who happened to be Fizban in this case, questions it, Samson treats that question like it was a flame or troll. That's complete crap, Davion. :mad:
Assuming that it wasn't a lie at the time, and there was then some sort of policy shift setting Samson as being involved in moderating again, don't you goddamn think we deserve to hear about it? I don't think it's fair in the slightest that you say something, things change and we don't hear of it, then when someone, who happened to be Fizban in this case, questions it, Samson treats that question like it was a flame or troll. That's complete crap, Davion. :mad:
It definitely wasn't a lie. Samson has agreed to stay out of moderation. There was also no policy shift. What happened is, users went to Samson complaining about me (apparently I stepped over some line when it came to dealing with Banner.) and one thing led to another. I guess the onus is on me not to screw up again so something like this never happens again.
:mad:
02 Aug, 2009, Davion wrote in the 36th comment:
Quote
I don't think I "trolled a troll" anymore than anybody trolls anybody when mentioning past events of the sort. Shall we start saying that Samson is trolling Locke and Vryce due to the omnipresent goading in his sig? Of course not – that would be ridiculous.
Dubstack is an active troll. Taking shots at Locke or Vryce are different, because they wont come here to feed off those comments.
02 Aug, 2009, David Haley wrote in the 37th comment:
Ohwait, where is it exactly that Dubstack has come to feed off of that vicious, vicious troll? Ohright, the only people I see making a huge issue out of it are… well…… yeah.
02 Aug, 2009, Koron wrote in the 38th comment:
Just a reminder, saying "the" thread is misleading. He locked more than one and in rapid succession, which was the direct cause of all that aforementioned goading.
02 Aug, 2009, Runter wrote in the 39th comment:
David Haley is now a registered troll. He has to stay at least 15 miles from schools and playgrounds.
02 Aug, 2009, Koron wrote in the 40th comment:
Davion said:
Dubstack is an active troll. Taking shots at Locke or Vryce are different, because they wont come here to feed off those comments.
I really don't think this is a fair statement. I find taking shots at trolls to be endearing and a perfectly amusing way to pass the time. It doesn't make them any more popular and sooner or later they learn that we make fun of them because we don't approve of their trolldom.
No one is forced to read or agree with anything anyone says. I didn't even read the Dubstack thread because I found my eyes bleeding every time I tried to do so. But even still, it serves as an excellent example of why only mature people capable of forming coherent thoughts should be trying to run muds–a fact that stands alone, having absolutely nothing to do with the person who serves to remind us of it.
Edit for clarity: Basically, every troll we defeat gives us +10 xp to spend on our community bonding class. :)
Random Picks
Amen.
This is precisely why I haven't read ANY of this crap yet. Every time I've opened MB in the past 48 hours, I've taken a very brief look at what's new and said, "Nope, screw it." and left.
When people act this way it makes me simply not care enough to pay attention to MB or want to administer it properly, which at this point, would be doing nothing more than deleting posts like the one HK described.