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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <<A HREF="mailto:Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com">Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:58:45 -0400 (EDT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
> Paul Schwanz wrote:
> > While you are correct that true role-playing is based on the skills of the
> > character and not the skills of the gamer, trying to defend your decision
> > regarding what many refer to as "Levelquest" on the basis that your game
> seeks
> > to remain true to its role-playing roots will be hard for many to swallow.
> What
> > most participants in MMORPGs are engaged in (as dictated by the games
> design in
> > many cases) is a form of Avatarism and not true role-playing. A game
> which
> > simply converts _time_ to _levels_, IMHO, is a greater detraction from the
> > assumption of a role.
>
Ryan responded:
> I may work for Verant and developed for EQ, but it was a collective
> decision in many aspects and not necessarily reflective of my own personal
> opinion or goals. My personal purpose for being a member of this list is to
> both contribute and learn, mainly the latter through exposure to
> perspectives I have yet to consider, _NOT_ to defend "LevelQuest", as you
> put it. As a game designer, it is my personal belief, that a game designer
> can never have enough perspectives of any particular issue. Each may have
> its own merits, despite its flaws. EverQuest too falls into this category -
> some good - some bad. But let's keep this a general discussion with
> specifics used for example or reference. There is no need to "judge", or
> assume inference, regarding a specific game based on mere association unless
> otherwise admitted or stated.
>
You are absolutely correct. It was rude of me to imply otherwise. I hope you
will accept my sincere apology.
> Personally, I tend to agree with you on the avatarism vs. role-playing
> issue. It is the same reason why pen-and-paper players tend to prefer
> rolling their own characters as opposed to being handed them. It provides
> an extension of their "being" into the virtual space and therefore creates a
> stronger bond to both the game and the character.
>
> That said however, there is a point of where the amount of personal
> extension drastically changes the nature of the game.
>
I agree that there is a point where this will happen. However, I think that the
exact point is open to _much_ debate. But my feeling is that there is now only
_one_ "personal extension" that matters. That personal extension is how much
_time_ you can put into the game. In this regard, the game is based, not on the
gamer's skill, but on the gamer's time. (And perhaps a combination of both, but
certainly not much is really determined by the character, per se.) If we wish to
remove some of the personal extension from the game, I'd like to see MMORPGs
based on the _character's_ money and time and not the _gamer's_ money or time.
Perhaps my desire for more emphasis on skill is an emotional appeal to be able
to compete with those who have more time than I do. But I would also like to be
able to engage myself more fully in the events that are taking place. However,
far from wanting to see more "twitch" action, I'd like to see more advancement
available to those who have skill in politics, social graces, role-playing,
persuasion, strategy, diplomacy, logic, etc. I feel that a game that requires
skill in these areas will be more immersive and go farther in suspending my
disbelief.
> For purposes of understanding my use of nomenclature, I would like to
> specify my interpretation of terms.
>
> Role-playing: the assumption of a role inside of a virtual environment where
> the game reflects/weighs on character/avatar skill
> -- games such as MUDs, MMORPGs, Torment, Baldur's Gate, Final Fantasy fall
> under this category
>
> Action-Adventure: a game that revolves around player skill and reflexes to
> determine character advancement/progression
> -- games such as Diablo, Revenant, and Nox fall under this category
>
> Obviously all examples fall under fantasy. But not all fall under this
> definition of role-playing.
Again, I think you are equating player skill with reflexes. And a MMORPG which
requires more twitch is not at all what I am promoting. But the more important
point is this. Why show so much concern about the _character's_ skill and the
_character's_ wealth while having a design which places so much emphasis on the
_gamer's_ time? If the emphasis is to be on the character, then, IMHO, I think
it would be wise to be consistent.
--Phinehas
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00374" HREF="msg00374.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Tess Lowe <a href="mailto:tess#havensong,com">tess#havensong,com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 20:17 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00380" HREF="msg00380.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Schubert, Damion <a href="mailto:dschubert#origin,ea.com">dschubert#origin,ea.com</a>, Mon 17 Apr 2000, 20:17 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00424" HREF="msg00424.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <a href="mailto:Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com">Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 19:48 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00416" HREF="msg00416.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Kian Wilcox <a href="mailto:Kian_Wilcox#concordacademy,org">Kian_Wilcox#concordacademy,org</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 19:48 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00426" HREF="msg00426.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] banning the sale of items</A></strong>,
Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services <a href="mailto:Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com">Paul.Schwanz#east,sun.com</a>, Tue 18 Apr 2000, 19:49 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00187" HREF="msg00187.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
Ryan Palacio <a href="mailto:rpalacio#verant,com">rpalacio#verant,com</a>, Tue 11 Apr 2000, 23:22 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00193" HREF="msg00193.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
maddog <a href="mailto:maddog#best,com">maddog#best,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 01:24 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00196" HREF="msg00196.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its populargaming sites</A></strong>,
Wes Connell <a href="mailto:wconnell#skotos,net">wconnell#skotos,net</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 04:04 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00212" HREF="msg00212.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Sony to ban sale of online characters from its popular gaming sites</A></strong>,
Frank Crowell <a href="mailto:maddog#maddog,com">maddog#maddog,com</a>, Wed 12 Apr 2000, 05:50 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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