<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying. --> <!--X-From-R13: pbqreNvoz.arg --> <!--X-Date: Sat, 01 Nov 1997 23:24:12 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199711012326.XAA82724#out1,ibm.net --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:coder#ibm,net"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00198.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00199.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00199.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00201.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00200">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00200">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00200">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 01 Nov 97 15:05:32 -0800</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> From: lunfo#aol,com (Lunfo) Newsgroups: rec.games.mud.misc Subject: Less numbers, more roleplaying. Date: 30 Aug 1997 17:55:00 GMT Having telnetted and developed extensive characters in many MUDs ever since my first exposure to them about 6 years ago I've started to divide them into two categories: number oriented vs. imagination oriented. For the sake of comparison I will use the two most popular MUDs that I have come across: Gemstone III and Dragonrealms. (if you will take the luxury of berating me for "selling out" or picking the mainstream, the "aol of all MUDs" just remember a self-conceived quote I have: Beleaguering "pop culture" is the pop culture of modern time. Now to get on with the comparison. As most of you know (if not from playing the game then from hearing all the newbies auction their items here ;) Gemstone bases its entire experience system and its combat system on "numbers." (i.e. Attack strength = 200, defense strength = 190, caster's strength = 250, etc...) From my experience, these numbers overcame me and became my primary concern every time I signed on to GS3. I would pull "all nighters" for a week to get these "numbers" up. And no matter how high they become it was never enough. When I would see my friends exploring new places and just being in-character I would tell them that they will never get "their numbers" up doing this. But then after I reached a decent level I would realize how systematic and parasitic my whole experience with the game has been. I would realize how much it took away from my real life experiences and how it made me into pretty much a hermit. Then I would go straight to the local inn and retire my character. After a week or so I would start this process again and it would have the same ending. I did this about 5 times before I realized something. That there were words in this game that actually were interesting to read and had nothing to do with numbers. After going through the whole realms, reading the room descriptions, exploring new places, talking with an eclectic amount of people and just acting out my character I realized that no matter how high my skills were that I have been a newbie until that point. From my personal opinion - "numbers" increase the competition in the game and pull it towards the "hack and slash genre" (for those people that are going to jump all over me saying that Gemstone was in the "hack and slash genre from the very first time of its conception I have this to tell them: They are probably playing Gemstone on the level I was playing it when I was obsessed with numbers.) A couple of years after my experience with Gemstone, I ventured into the second Elanthia, Dragonrealms. I found the experience and the combat system of this game totally fascinating. Although the experience system had numbers, it wasn't based on "numbers." In contrast to GS3 where one exp skill determines your level Dragonrealms had about 30 ( each different for different personalities and professions) that do. And each experience needed for an increase in level was very unique and enticing: mechanical lore, foraging, musical lore, magical devices, targetting, primary magic, swimming, climbing, heavy edged weapons, medium edged weapons, two-handed edged weapons, brawling (I know not put in yet but many people got a lot of experience with that from the bug) composite crossbow, teaching, scholarship, and lots lots more. The combat system was even better since it didnt have any numbers altogether. It was all sentence oriented. i.e. The bolt lands a devastating hit that ruptures the spleen and causes an outflow of green mucous. Although I believe Dragonrealms took Gemstone to an entire new level, it still deserves critique. To begin with, the guild specifications for experience (mainly until reaching level 10) confine young players too much and not let their own personality to transcend into that of the characters. I believe that a player, who is in the barbarian guild, that wants to convey his love of music through his character and learns musical lore is discouraged from doing so because musical lore is not in his immediate experience requirements. Furthermore, one might also say that the hits of the combat system could be equivalent to numbers. i.e. each combat message specifies the extend of the hit: light hit, good strike, heavy, extremely heavy, hard, brushing, awesome, devastating, etc... However the best experience one would get from playing any MUD (that has a rank system or money system where competition is inevitable) is to forget about the exp system and the money system and just follow your character's instincts, whether it be to travel distand lands in search of knowledge, or engage in philosophical arguments with other characters (this latter urge I have to admit was very difficult to fulfill in GS3 and Dragonrealms - I think we all know the reason for that) As the French say, Finis. :) -- J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net ----------(*) Internet: coder#ibm,net ...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00198.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] string parsing</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00199.html">Re: DESIGN: ECONOMICS: Money Supply</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00199.html">Re: DESIGN: ECONOMICS: Money Supply</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00200"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00200"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] newbie</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] newbie</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 04:31 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00257" HREF="msg00257.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] newbie</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 13:10 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00202" HREF="msg00202.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Idea: Hive-mind monster</A></strong>, Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Sun 02 Nov 1997, 01:47 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00199" HREF="msg00199.html">Re: DESIGN: ECONOMICS: Money Supply</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 01 Nov 1997, 23:26 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00200" HREF="msg00200.html">Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 01 Nov 1997, 23:24 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00201" HREF="msg00201.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 02 Nov 1997, 00:14 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00260" HREF="msg00260.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 16:33 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00265" HREF="msg00265.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 21:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00301" HREF="msg00301.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Less numbers, more roleplaying.</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 15 Nov 1997, 17:56 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>