<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World] -->
<!--X-From-R13: [ngg Qunggreyrl <ebbgNzcp.qla.zy.bet> -->
<!--X-Date: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:39:10 +0000 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: Pine.LNX.3.96.971209221459.1960A-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 348E184A.A8A#dial,pipex.com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00636.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00640.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00584.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00691.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00639">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00639">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00639">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matt Chatterley <<A HREF="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 10 Dec 1997 17:45:48 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:neddy#itl,net">neddy#itl,net</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Richard Woolcock wrote:
> Matt Chatterley wrote:
> > On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Derrick Jones wrote:
> > > On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Vadim Tkachenko wrote:
[Snipple]
> > This is an interesting point that I will only touch on (since I think it
> > has been discussed to death for now, of late). Many people dislike
> > strongly to be killed by another player. The interesting issue is *why*
> > and I believe it comes down to game context. Usually things that can kill
> > you are things you expect to hit you, and to hurt you, and which you
> > voluntarily enter dangerous situations with. The fact that there is a
> > network connection attached to one, which decided *concious* (rather than
> > based on automated criteria) to attack and harm you is taken in an
> > exagerated context (is it anymore personal an attack than one from an NPC?
> > I say *no* since it is NOT personal against you, or at least, ideally is
> > not).
>
> Interesting...has anyone put in any form of assassin-type mob? I wonder if
> this might have a similar affect...imagine a scene like:
Sidenote: Could you use a symbol other than > to simulate prompt input? It
looks messy. :P Before going any further; yes I have an assassins guild in
the planning (inspired by the NightHawks from RE Feist's Riftwar series),
and yes; assassin NPCs will play a factor in some elements of the game.
Particularly if you wish to remove an annoying obstacle without soiling
your hands (the definition of obstacle is left to your imagination).
> >restYou rest, to begin recovery from your wounds.
> >lookYou are standing in the forest. Tall trees are surrounding you on all
> sides, blah blah blah <insert pretty description>
> Bubba is resting here.
> Bubba says 'Hey, did you see X-files last night?'
> >shakeYou shake your head.
> >say any good?A hooded figure leaps from a nearby tree.
> The hooded figure aims its crossbow at Bubba and fires.
> The crossbow bolt enters Bubba's throat, pinning him to a large oak tree.
> You say 'any good?'
> Bubba gurgles for a moment then slumps as the life leaves his body.
> The hooded figure spins around and plunges a knife through your heart.
> You keel over, dead.
Ouch. Why does Bubba always buy it unpleasantly? :)
> I believe this would have a similar affect to PK, for the following
> reasons:
>
> 1) You were surprised and unprepared for the attack.
This is certainly a factor, but in obviously non-player provoked
environments (eg: when it is not a player doing the harm and you know it),
this tends to evoke the 'Its not fair!' reaction in players rather than PK
reactions, if that makes sense. Of course, blurring lines between players
and NPCs, and generally making a point out of 'PK' NOT being a special
case might help..
> 2) You were busy talking, and not really interesting in fighting.
> 3) You were killed by an opponent you couldn't ever hope to beat.
All undeniable. :)
> Basically, its just not fair. Like many instances of PK.
Yup. Of course, while I intend to allow rampant PK (or rather, I do not
intend to restrict PK, and when I do restrict it, the same restrictions
apply to ALL killing situations), I do not anticipate it being a problem.
A newbie character *does have a chance* to defeat a very experienced
character. The chance is slim depending on the races, stats, and skills of
the individuals, and there are situations where there is simply no chance,
but the point here being that I am attempting to avoid the situation
whereby if a level 50 player chooses to attack a level 1, it is absolutely
cut and dried.
> The only real difference between this and PK is that mobs don't usually
> brag about killing you afterwards - although I know one mud where some
> of the mobs used to shout "I killed <name>, and looted his stinking
> corpse!" - but even this is somewhat inpersonal and thus not so insulting.
Heh. :)
I wonder, why do players brag about this, and can it be avoided?
Regards,
-Matt Chatterley
ICQ: 5580107
"I shall never believe that God plays dice with the world." -Einstein
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>:
<ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00691" HREF="msg00691.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Derrick Jones <gunther#online1,magnus1.com></li></ul>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00584" HREF="msg00584.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Richard Woolcock <KaVir#dial,pipex.com></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00636.html">[MUD-Dev] Wild west (was Guilds & Politics)</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00640.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00584.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00691.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00639"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00639"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00554" HREF="msg00554.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 06:13 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00564" HREF="msg00564.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 09:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00566" HREF="msg00566.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 10:00 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00584" HREF="msg00584.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 19:06 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00639" HREF="msg00639.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 10 Dec 1997, 17:39 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00691" HREF="msg00691.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 08:11 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00704" HREF="msg00704.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 22:05 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00709" HREF="msg00709.html">[MUD-Dev] OT: Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 23:19 GMT
</LI>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00701" HREF="msg00701.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 17:48 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>
