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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 19 Dec 1997 01:26:06 -4</LI>
<LI><em>Comments</em>: Authenticated sender is <jlsysinc#popd,ix.netcom.com></LI>
<LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 10 Dec 97 at 21:31, coder#ibm,net wrote:
> On 23/11/97 at 10:51 AM, Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl> said: >On Mon
> 15 Sep, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
>
> Some while back I proposed such a rank point system:
> --<cut>--
[re-cut]
> --<cut>--
>
> This RP handling would be totally seperate from any concept of levels or
> individual advancemcent within the game, thus you could have an overly
> popular newbie character who thru RP's help the position of Emperor, and
> an unpopular top high level character who would have a tough time getting
> a position as a cockroach skinner's assistant.
>
I truly wonder whether such a system will preclude the destructive
tendencies of a bored playerbase that you enumerated in another thread.
I haven't noticed this natural tendency to test the "limits of system" in
most RPer games. In any event, such a sub-game adds a lot of meat and
purpose to having factions, clans, tribes, etc.
> >Nobody can deny there is some kind of economy on even the simplest of
> >muds. The problem is that they all suffer from rampant inflation both
> >over time and between levels. When a mud first starts money on players
> >and monsters is reasonably balanced. As the game progesses players begin
> >to hoard enormous amounts of gold. After a while they have more millions
> >than they could ever hope to spend. Unless there are drastic and
> >unrealistic measures to reduce the amount of money again like rent or
> >taxes. Most likely however this is "solved" by setting prices for
> >certain services at extremely high levels. At the same time however you
> >can see that new players have the same amount of money that was
> >reasonable when the game started. As they increase in levels they too
> >must hoard worse than a dragon to be able to play the game properly.
> >The problem of course lies in the fact that the supply of gold and
> >equipment (which is sold in shops with an infinite supply of gold) is
> >endless. Ever more money is brought in and nothing is ever taken out so
> >the prices go up. You have to break out of this cycle to get a real
> >economy. No equipment enters the game unless it is created, and
> >equipment is destroyed at about the same speed as it is made. For each
> >new player a certain amount of money becomes available so the number of
> >players does not affect the economy. Of course when a player is deleted
> >the same amount of money must be removed from the game again.
>
> I approach this by having an underlieing particle/energy economy for the
> entire game. It costs resources (particles of specific types as described
> earlier) to create any object. The guarantee of the game is that the net
> sum of all particles of all types will always be zero (0). Nothing is
> actually ever created. The only import to the universe is "willpower"
> which is the main causitive factor in forcing particle transformations,
> and is thus used to increase the gap between (sum of all negative
> particles) and (sum of all positive particles).
>
I really like the zero-sum or fixed-pie economy ideas (at least within
the bounds of a mud <grin>). This does not mean, for me, that there
are resources and anti-reesources or negative particles and positive
particles. Of course I'm thinking of a higher level ecology based on
less atomic resources like gold, lead, iron, copper, wood, plant products
, animals, etc... Although the underlying and truly atomic nature of my
world is contained in my .sig :) Implementing it at that level might pose
some difficulty.
> Some objects, such as magical objects, actively consume specific particle
> types during their lifetimes, and self-destruct when they are unable to
> consume the requisite particles (see UggUgg's mana fight for an example).
> Other objects just decay progressively, dissolving to their constiuent
> particles.
Hmm, I just posted some ideas on the deistic power system, aka channeling
of phenomenal energy. This realm I consider separate from the realm of
true magicks which is based on what I term 'aether'. This area is not
yet well developed, but it will involve exchanging real world resources
(ala spell components) for aether or 'tapping' into aether sources (nodes).
The gold/silver/copper economy is something I've thought quite a lot about.
At the start of the system the amount of gold in the world will be fixed.
Although much of it will be hidden or not easily accessible (most likely
it need be mined). So the local prices are a function of the available
gold in the local area (neighborhood? hmm), the demand for the product,
and the cost to produce that product. Gold may of course be transmuted
to and from other substances or energies. The total amount in the
world might change in this way. The amount in "circulation" in a local
economy is rather difficult to determine as characters may be hoarding
it even though it is available. It would be a shame to have the economy
of a small village ruined just because a party of adventurers with a
wagonful of gold just happen to be passing through on their way to another
city, even though they only spend a few coins there.
Another problem is to determine what the average or mean demand for
the product _should_ be in a given locality and adjust it accordingly as
transactions occur or don't occur. Note: This is the area where the economy
fails as illustrated by the fixed price vending machines of 'Habitat'. Now
such a system does not preclude characters from making huge profits on
certain exchanges, the profits will shrink over time or become cyclic in
nature as demand and supply competition increase or shrink.
--
Jon A. Lambert
Nature comprehends the visible and invisible creatures of the whole
universe. What we call Nature especially, is the universal fire or
Anima Mundi, filling the whole system of the Universe, and therefore
is a Universal Agent, omnipresent, and endowed with an unerring instinct,
and manifests itself in fire and light. It is the First creature of
Divine Omnipotence.
-----
</PRE>
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<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00372" HREF="msg00372.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00670" HREF="msg00670.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> coder#ibm,net</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] requests</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00422" HREF="msg00422.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] requests</A></strong>,
Frank Crowell <a href="mailto:frankc#maddog,com">frankc#maddog,com</a>, Thu 27 Nov 1997, 19:48 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00372" HREF="msg00372.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 23 Nov 1997, 16:06 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00391" HREF="msg00391.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Mon 24 Nov 1997, 06:43 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00670" HREF="msg00670.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 05:01 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00875" HREF="msg00875.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 19 Dec 1997, 06:24 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00367" HREF="msg00367.html">more requests</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 23 Nov 1997, 16:03 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00358" HREF="msg00358.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Introductions and descriptions</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 22 Nov 1997, 20:16 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00334" HREF="msg00334.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] A flamewar startingpoint.)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Fri 21 Nov 1997, 15:56 GMT
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00347" HREF="msg00347.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] A flamewar startingpoint.)</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 22 Nov 1997, 07:02 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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