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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 13 Dec 1997 01:01:30 -4</LI>
<LI><em>Comments</em>: Authenticated sender is <jlsysinc#popd,ix.netcom.com></LI>
<LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On 12 Dec 97 at 17:03, Vadim Tkachenko wrote:
> Today's flamebite follows:
>
> - Universe should preserve the balance (hopefully).
Yes. Both of them, the real and phenomenal. :)
> - Every time cleric prays to his/her God, they gain some energy which
> then can spend somehow.
Clerics, mystics, sorcerors and healers have the ability to channel
energy between the phenomenal universe and the real universe through
prayer, ritual and sacrifice.
> - From the balance standpoint, their God's energy level should decrease
Not necessarily. The act of channeling converts real energy into
phenomenal energy. Only divinities can process phenomenal energy, at
least directly. A divinity will convert a portion of the phenomenal
energy received back into real energy that the cleric can use.
The basic channeling equations:
RE -> PE
RE <- PE - K
where RE is real energy, PE is phenomenal energy and K is the dieties
portion kept.
> - which is meaningless from the religious point of view - all the
> history shows that the greater the number of some God's worshipers, the
> stronger that God
Our empirical observations remain intact or are slightly flawed. While the
conversion process is a losing one from the position of the real universe.
We seem to value the form that energy takes. Some forms of energy
(healing, resurrection, etc.) have more value than the real energy
(sacrifices, prayer, etc.) consumed. And converts are gathered to the
cause.
> - which means that energy levels of both God and worshiper increase as
> they interact
Yes, but there are many phenomenal beings which appear to compete for that
energy in different ways.
> - which throws the balance completely out of balance.
>
As you've probably noticed my equation is out of balance. It would seem
that the real world would soon disappear due to the K factor sink in
the phenomenal realm. Well this K factor gets converted back into
the real world through the deistic intervention which takes the form
of miracles, signs, omens, aid, spheres of control, etc. The result
of which seems to be gaining of even more converts to feed the process
or on rare occasions direct deistic confrontations.
> Okay, now my solution for that (I *DO* realize, not the only one :-):
>
> - I should (well, at least I want) to preserve the balance.
> - Energy levels of both God and worshiper _should_ increase, in game.
> - to preserve the balance, I introduce anti-god - some entity which
> exists on the material plane and is the exact opposite to the given God.
>
> Now, the question is - 'what do you mean, opposite?' Well, that's a
> tough question, so far I was able to formulate that as 'opposite
> alignment' (which explains, BTW, why I pay so much attention to it) -
> actually, this message is a request for new ideas.
>
I thought it might be. :)
> Then,
>
> - no obvious link between the god and anti-god exists.
>
> For example, given that the God is good, the anti-god is evil, it's a
> monster, and lives somewhere - this creates a funny possibility that the
> good worshipers of that good God will announce a quest to eliminate that
> evil abomination, and ...
>
An interesting side effect in my proposed system is that evil gods
seem to have a larger K factor. This causes them to unleash large
amounts of real energy over short durations of time. Often ravenously
consuming their own power base in the real world. While the unleashed
energy is more powerful, it is more short term. Thus once evil has
had a particularly good run, it takes quite a long time to gather
its powerbase together again. OTOH, the good gods seem to play the game
for the long haul. Smaller K factors result in greater reliance and trust
on the real realm for sustainable and growing power bases. A good
example would be the world of JRR Tolkein where evil lies dormant for
many years and when it moves it burns itself out rather rapidly.
--
Jon A. Lambert
"Everything that deceives may be said to enchant" - Plato
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00756" HREF="msg00756.html">[MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Vadim Tkachenko <vadimt#4cs,com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00773" HREF="msg00773.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] OT: Books</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 13 Dec 1997, 06:56 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00763" HREF="msg00763.html">LIST: Forced unsubscriptions due to persistant bounces</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Sat 13 Dec 1997, 00:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00769" HREF="msg00769.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] LIST: Forced unsubscriptions due to persistant bounces</A></strong>,
Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Sat 13 Dec 1997, 05:56 GMT
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</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00756" HREF="msg00756.html">[MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Fri 12 Dec 1997, 21:53 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00768" HREF="msg00768.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 13 Dec 1997, 05:58 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00770" HREF="msg00770.html">[MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Brandon Cline <a href="mailto:brandon#sedona,net">brandon#sedona,net</a>, Sat 13 Dec 1997, 06:00 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00782" HREF="msg00782.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Sat 13 Dec 1997, 18:15 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00838" HREF="msg00838.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Mon 15 Dec 1997, 16:18 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00888" HREF="msg00888.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Sat 20 Dec 1997, 02:56 GMT
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