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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Greg Munt <<A HREF="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 26 Dec 1997 16:30:00 +0100 (GMT+0100)</LI>
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<PRE>
[##Make Nylander]
> [Mike Sellers]
>
> | [##Make Nylander]
> |
> | > For me, the idea of a graphics-only MUD has always sounded like
> | > "we invented video tape, now let's burn all the books!".
I've never seen a commercial mud of UO's ilk, my only frame of reference
is something like Sierra On-Line's "King's Quest" series. AFAIK these
games featured a mixed interface (both text and graphics) - and I would
doubt the success of a graphics-only mud. My reasoning behind this is
that when you *completely* abandon text, you lose functionality. If you
are going to change the interface, it should, at the very least, be able
to provide identical functionality to what it is replacing.
> | Let's not have the graphical people telling the text
> | people they're geek-dinosaurs and the text people accusing the graphical
> | people of having no imagination or making other patronizing comments.
I'm confident that these sorts of comments will stay in the newsgroups,
where they belong (did I say that?) - so long as this list is moderated,
at any rate :)
> | > There's plenty of room on the net for graphical MUDs, and they're
> | > probably a lot more appealing to the Nintendo generation than
> | > traditional text-based MUDs. But for people like me, who've grown
> | > up playing RPGs, the representation of the game world is of no
> | > importance, since we've already got the best medium of all available:
> | > our imagination.
> |
> | Okay, ignoring the patronizing nature of this paragraph, let me just point
I don't see this as patronising in the slightest. Perhaps you are being a
tad over-defensive? Remember, this isn't USENET. Perhaps your definitions
of "The Nintendo generation" differ, somewhat. Taken in context, I would
assume the implication of a group of people who are used to GUI's (and
perhaps *expect* them), rather than beings of lower intelligence,
and attention-span.
> How am I being patronizing? I stated my opinion, I didn't claim
> the original poster was wrong. In his post, Greg Munt implied that
> most people play text MUDs because they don't know anything better,
> I'm saying that most people are well aware of possibilities of
> the Web, but also acknowledge the economical and technical limitations.
The difference between not knowing anything better, and not being able to
access anything better (or not being prepared to fork out the cash, in
order to do so), is that really significant, in this context?
> I like GUIs, I like pretty graphics, and IMO if you're planning to make
> a career out of coding MUDs, graphics are the only way to go. BUT,
> producing a graphical MUD takes a lot of time and money, and
> until someone can run something akin to Ultima Online free of charge,
> there'll be aplenty of people who'll be quite happy to suffer the
> limitations of text-only interface just to be able to play for free.
The implication here is that people want to use mud GUI's, but either
don't have, or aren't offered, the resources to do so.
Let's define what is considered "Web Technology": HTML, definitely;
JavaScript, yes; ActiveX, no chance. DHTML is coming, bringing CSS with
it. Perhaps even XML too. A foreseeable danger is IE's non-compliance
with Sun. (Was this sorted out? Last I heard, Sun were petitioning
Microsoft for the removal of the Java logo from its browser...)
As far as rapidly-changing technologies go, I see no problem, so long as
backwards compatibility is observed - and perhaps an icon saying which
'version' that page is compliant with (similar to the HTML icons
available from www.w3.org). Plug-ins are an option, but the danger there
is perhaps requiring a seperate plugin for each browser - and, of course,
the potential player who can't be bothered to go away and download yet
*another* new plugin!
The graphics vs text argument is not new. I remember when Infocom
released its first graphical adventure. The same arguments were given
then, for and against using graphics in the so-called "Interactive
Fiction."
These days, pure text adventures are dead. Does anyone see this happening
with muds too? Can the commercial successes cross over into the world of
free muds? Should they?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is a 99% chance that I hate and despise your miserable little existence.
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="01023" HREF="msg01023.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00964" HREF="msg00964.html">[MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> ##Make Nylander <thenewt#use,usit.net></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00973" HREF="msg00973.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Fri 26 Dec 1997, 23:19 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00963" HREF="msg00963.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
Mike Sellers <a href="mailto:mike#online-alchemy,com">mike#online-alchemy,com</a>, Thu 25 Dec 1997, 21:57 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00964" HREF="msg00964.html">[MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
##Make Nylander <a href="mailto:thenewt#use,usit.net">thenewt#use,usit.net</a>, Thu 25 Dec 1997, 23:42 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00965" HREF="msg00965.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 26 Dec 1997, 09:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00969" HREF="msg00969.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 26 Dec 1997, 16:30 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01023" HREF="msg01023.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 30 Dec 1997, 09:18 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01009" HREF="msg01009.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] The impact of the web on muds</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Mon 29 Dec 1997, 21:04 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00953" HREF="msg00953.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Circumstances & Situations</A></strong>,
Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Thu 25 Dec 1997, 00:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00966" HREF="msg00966.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Circumstances & Situations</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Fri 26 Dec 1997, 09:57 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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