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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: Mud Dev Mailing list <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 09 Nov 1997 14:11:07 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
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<PRE>
On Mon 03 Nov, Derrick Jones wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Nov 1997, Sauron wrote:
> > > Why not put a criminal on the wanted list if they run off this way. Then
> > > they must disguise themselves on return or risk being recognised and ar-
> > > rested next time they connect?
> >
> > this is somewhat feasible, though of course the guards would already
> > know that
> > Bubba is an outlaw, but you have to find some way to get players to risk
> > their lives to capture him. a high reward works sometimes, but not
> > always, especially w/ players not interested in money.
*shrug* that depends on the game I suppose.
> Rofl..that's the whole point of the town being a no_violence area. I
> allow 'full' PK (you have to confirm it to prevent typo-kills) and players
> need a place where they can feel relatively safe so as to let down their
> guard and socialize a bit.
If the world in your game is that dangerous I probably would not enjoy
to visit it anyway so how you handle problems is, for me, moot. My in-
terest is in a social game where you can at times experience dangerous
situations. That obviously would not work on the game you are talking
about.
> My concern was "better than what?" better than the average player? How
> is the mage better? I assume you mean 'higher level' or whatever power
> gradient you choose. More powerful than who then? The average character?
> the strongest character? the strongest possible character? Then how did
> the mage (who is no different from the PC's) become more powerful than
> possible? seems self-contradictory.
On the other hand, why would the player be overly powerfull? I do not
quite understand what the problem is here. If a town outlaws weapons
and the use of offensive magic then it makes sense they enforce that
law. Just like everybody else a mage needs food, shelter and a family
so why would they be opposed to being hired by a town council to pro-
tect it against other mages? What keeps the city guard from throwing
out the council and install themselves as leaders? The fact that any
fighter or mage can be overpowered by a greater number. Getting rid
of the town council is not the hard part, keeping control is, and the
fighters and the mages would know that. So instead they are satisfied
with the job and luxury they enjoy and do not seek to increase it if
the cost is too high.
The same ought to be true for the players. The biggest question ought
to be -why would they want to attack other players/creatures in town-
not how it can be prevented. If you take away the motivation then it
is simple to deal with the offenders. They are not playing the game,
and dealing with them requires the hand of god (or the game's admin)
not some guard that is apparently difficult to justify.
> Plus, such a brute-force approach is
> too simplistic, and is not within the boundries of my game world. Also,
> houses are designed to keep PCs out. Try to imagine a structure where
> your most determined players find it difficult to enter un-invited. Now
> design guards that can just waltz in bacause they are simply so powerful
> that the PC defences don't leave a scratch. Now place those guards in an
> area where they have been relagated to what is generally deemed as the
> servile task of policing a small town. Now design a town that both needs
> the protection of these guards and hopes to control them.
Why grant players powers above those the guards enjoy. If players can
have little fortresses that others find it impossible to enter then
why not a town as well?
> near-omniscient -> They've gotta know 1. where a crime is taing place, 2.
> who committed the crime, 3. where a door leads (the portal) that no
> longer exists and they could never see the other side. 4. be able to
> track that player through multiple nonexistant doors in a reasonable time.
*shrug* there's numerous ideas that could at least overcome this in
a way that fits in a magical world, including a magical trace that
can be followed back to its origin (i.e. the mage). Retribution does
not have to be immediate after all, declaring a player wanted might
serve just as well. As long as a sufficient number of guards defeat
even the most powerfull player -and- the consequence of defeat is a
repellant to risk being killed then guards can arrest a player or at
least drive her from town.
> near-omnipresent -> If they're not there when the crime was committed,
> then there's no reason for them to track the mage. A town is a big place.
> The guards have to watch every square foot.
This is true, but there were other threads dealing with witnesses to
crimes...
> near-omnipotent -> Once they track down the player, they've got to arrest
> them. Not an easy task to haul in a powerful mage deeply entrenced in
> magical protections. Each house has to be a veritable Fort Knox to keep
> players out while the owner is off-line. (although a suggestion elswhere
> in this thread for 'security codes' to turn off house defences can be a
> step if the house defences are registered with the town) Plus, you have
> to conscider that these guards are in effect rent-a-mercs who will most
> likely not be willing to die in droves in the hope of swarming a single
> outlaw.
They don't have to die in droves. As long as the consequences of defeat
are sufficiently severe they only have to threaten. Players should see
reason and surrender if faced with odds they can not hope to beat. This
is the way police works isn't it?
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00268" HREF="msg00268.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00222" HREF="msg00222.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Derrick Jones <gunther#online1,magnus1.com></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
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<LI><strong><A NAME="00232" HREF="msg00232.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Tue 04 Nov 1997, 04:32 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00238" HREF="msg00238.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
Sauron <a href="mailto:dlove#kusd,kusd.edu">dlove#kusd,kusd.edu</a>, Tue 04 Nov 1997, 21:59 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00243" HREF="msg00243.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Wed 05 Nov 1997, 18:46 GMT
</LI>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00240" HREF="msg00240.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)y</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Wed 05 Nov 1997, 08:56 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00261" HREF="msg00261.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 09 Nov 1997, 16:34 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00268" HREF="msg00268.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 10 Nov 1997, 02:07 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00581" HREF="msg00581.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 18:37 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00586" HREF="msg00586.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Fear of magic (was:Usability and interface)</A></strong>,
Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 19:50 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00624" HREF="msg00624.html">Players as Monsters/NPCs</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 10 Dec 1997, 07:09 GMT
</LI>
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