<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World] --> <!--X-From-R13: Rreevpx Xbarf <thagureNbayvar1.zntahf1.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:11:39 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.SV4.3.93.971211023605.18491B-100000@online1 --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.LNX.3.96.971209221459.1960A-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00690.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00692.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00639.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00704.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00691">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00691">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00691">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Derrick Jones <<A HREF="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 03:24:38 -0500 (EST)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: Derrick Jones <<A HREF="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</A>></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Matt Chatterley wrote: > On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Richard Woolcock wrote: > > Matt Chatterley wrote: > > > On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Derrick Jones wrote: > > > > On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Vadim Tkachenko wrote: > [Snipple] > > > Many people dislike strongly to be killed by another player. The > > > interesting issue is *why* > > > > Interesting...has anyone put in any form of assassin-type mob? I wonder if > > this might have a similar affect...imagine a scene like: > > Sidenote: Could you use a symbol other than > to simulate prompt input? It > looks messy. :P Before going any further; yes I have an assassins guild in > the planning (inspired by the NightHawks from RE Feist's Riftwar series), > and yes; assassin NPCs will play a factor in some elements of the game. > Particularly if you wish to remove an annoying obstacle without soiling > your hands (the definition of obstacle is left to your imagination). Hehe..just had a twisted vision of an assassin being hired to run an obstacle course for the player... Frothar the Slayer nimbly places a foot in each of the twelve radial tires on the ground here... > > > Bubba is resting here. > > Bubba gurgles for a moment then slumps as the life leaves his body. > > You keel over, dead. [above example trimmed] > > I believe this would have a similar affect to PK, for the following > > reasons: > > > > 1) You were surprised and unprepared for the attack. > > This is certainly a factor, but in obviously non-player provoked > environments (eg: when it is not a player doing the harm and you know it), > this tends to evoke the 'Its not fair!' reaction in players rather than PK > reactions, if that makes sense. One of the favorite PK places in one pk mud I played was a shop which had an extremely long inventory list. Bubba would be paging thru many pages of (store) inventory text trying to find some rare item of interest, only to be 95% of the way dead when he left his scrollback buffer. Enough people complained about the practice, and the shop owner began jumping into fights. Whoever the shop owner attacked, always lost. > Of course, blurring lines between players > and NPCs, and generally making a point out of 'PK' NOT being a special > case might help.. This is true. Also, blurring the lines between PC and NPC would give players a more equal chance of surviving both an attack by PC and NPC, and they would happen at more similar frequencies. One thing to note about why PC on PC combat is a big deal...It doesn't happen very often (the most hard-core pk muds like Genocide excluded), and it therefore sticks out from the 1000 mobiles that rolled over and died that evening. Also a curious trend...dispite al the attention pks get, they are rare. comments? > > 2) You were busy talking, and not really interesting in fighting. > > 3) You were killed by an opponent you couldn't ever hope to beat. > > All undeniable. :) This isn't always the case. True 'jerk' pk holds this to be axiomatic though. > > > Basically, its just not fair. Like many instances of PK. Hrm...fair to the attacker alright. more than fair. That's why they attack... > > The only real difference between this and PK is that mobs don't usually > > brag about killing you afterwards - although I know one mud where some > > of the mobs used to shout "I killed <name>, and looted his stinking > > corpse!" - but even this is somewhat inpersonal and thus not so insulting. > > Heh. :) > I wonder, why do players brag about this, and can it be avoided? I have a preliminary sketch of a crude justice system for keeping pk minimalized, and pretty much out of civilized towns. Here a few of the points: The code allows for Pk just about everywhere. There are a few OOC areas where _no_ combat takes place, mainly designed to sit around and shoot the OOC breeze. The game essentially stops for these areas, and the mud becomes a talker there...). Each town has its own law code and law enforcement (police). Pk is pretty much universally outlawed within town limits. Any crime committed will be logged. If the crime is reported within 10 minutes, the police will investigate (seeminly running around finding clues to observers, but in reality its a log check, with a chance to 'miss' the log entry which means no evidence was discovered). The victim cannot report his own attack (he's dead...duh), but any PC or NPC can file a report (perhaps the Shiriff won't believe outsiders?) which triggers an nivestigation. If sufficient evidence is found, the PC is branded an outlaw(descriptions posted, refused aid by most towns, hunted by police) and is punished upon capture. (I don't like forcing players to sit thru trials). NOTE: there will be a penalty for filing a false report, so if Boffo shouts "I just Pk'ed XXX!!", you better make sure he actually did. So if our beloved Bubba is beheaded by Boffo who begins to boast boistrously, anyone hearing the Boffo can report him to the local athorities. ALSO NOTE: Boffo cannot brag to Bubba unless Boffo happens to possess the ability to 'speak with dead', so taunting after a pk will have to be delayed until Bubba manages to reform his corpeal being. Derrick "A mind is like a door; it only works when open." Frank Zappa </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00704" HREF="msg00704.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00639" HREF="msg00639.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00690.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] You, the game of philosophy.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00692.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00639.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00704.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00691"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00691"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00564" HREF="msg00564.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 09:33 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00566" HREF="msg00566.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 10:00 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00584" HREF="msg00584.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 19:06 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00639" HREF="msg00639.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 10 Dec 1997, 17:39 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00691" HREF="msg00691.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 08:11 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00704" HREF="msg00704.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 22:05 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00709" HREF="msg00709.html">[MUD-Dev] OT: Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 23:19 GMT </LI> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00701" HREF="msg00701.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Thu 11 Dec 1997, 17:48 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00711" HREF="msg00711.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics [was Affecting the World]</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Fri 12 Dec 1997, 00:09 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>