<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries --> <!--X-From-R13: Hnqvz Fxnpuraxb <inqvzgN4pf.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:32:52 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 34996B8F.3DA6E7D0#4cs,com --> <!--X-Content-Type: multipart/mixed --> <!--X-Reference: Marcel-1.26-1214203123-0b0Ky&5#Gryphon,knoware.nl --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00866.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00868.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00864.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00869.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00867">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00867">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00867">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Vadim Tkachenko <<A HREF="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:29:35 -0600</LI> <LI><em>Sender</em>: <A HREF="mailto:vt#vadimt,4cs.com">vt#vadimt,4cs.com</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> Marian Griffith wrote: > > On Tue 09 Dec, Derrick Jones wrote: > > > On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Marian Griffith wrote: > > > On Sat 06 Dec, s001gmu#nova,wright.edu wrote: > > > > On Fri, 5 Dec 1997, Sauron wrote: > > > > Amen. :) I think having a full world map also makes solving the problem > > > > of long distance travel a little easier.. at least it's easier to keep it > > > > a realistic solution. > > > > Having a map is not the critical issue. You need to have a lot of back- > > > ground information of how areas look, how they interact and how they > > > came to be to be able to create a consistent world. Agreed absolutely. Also, there's a possibility to create additional information source in the maps - for example (I assume the kind of maps you're getting by walking through, and as the more area is covered, the representation of that area appears on your map, or, you can find it as an IC element), the very picture of the certain area may help you to solve the quest. > > > You also run into a problem of scale. (see below) > Finally there is the issue of **relative sizes**. Inside, rooms reasonably > match the actual locations in size (ignoring for now the special cases). > Planes, at the other extreme, but this really is true for just about any > outdoor region, have rooms sized in kilometers or more. Fixed size rooms, > as have been proposed, would lead to deserts of tens of thousands of rooms > across. All with identical descriptions. Clearly this would be tedious to > create and even more tedious to travel. So what? There are two aspects - RP and implementation. From implementation point of view, if you just blindly create the identical description for thousands of identical rooms, it's going to make you bankrupt because of ISPs charging for a disk space, and you're likely to run out of memory, too :-) So, what I'm going to use is just to have a vertical structure of areas/subareas/sub-subareas and so on. Thus, it's enough to create a description for the whole desert and then you'll see only this description unless there are some details you want the user to notice about some specific zone (room) in the desert (btw, I hate the concept of 'room' as such, but after detailed consideration I see that this is a must for a SIMPLE implementation, and I suspect that's why the rooms are still out there - or else you're doomed to track too many changes and drain the CPU power, later about that). From the RP point of view, tell me please, isn't it as boring as walking through the real desert? And, provided the correct navigation/movement tools/skills/whatever it becomes a valuable addition to the game itself - yes, it's big, I mean BIG, it's boring, I mean BORING, but! the desert can reveal unimaginable treasures upon a close examination. > The problem as I see it is that there simply is no convenient way to create > the richness of a natural environment in a way that is both simple to build > and pleasant to play. A region 2000 rooms across is impossible to write. Unless you automate and generalize it. > Clearly that would majorly change the nature of a game set in such a world. > Travelling across the plain would indeed be a major expedition and players > could be expected to prepare carefully for the undertaking. This is right, > Also there can > be no more quick equipment or experience runs in remote areas. Disagree here (maybe I just don't understand? Can you please rephrase, because I don't quite understand what is an equipment or experience run?), because > Simply since > getting there itself is taking too much time. Just to get to the hearth of a desert will require significant amount of courage, resources and survival skills, so I believe that the desert traveling (especially if it's a part of a larger picture) should be rewarded accordingly. Provided the player[s] don't die on their way, of course :-) > Marian -- Still alive and smile stays on, Vadim Tkachenko <VadimT#4CS,Com> -- UNIX _is_ user friendly, he's just very picky about who his friends are</PRE> <PRE> begin: vcard fn: Vadim Tkachenko n: Tkachenko;Vadim org: 4C Solutions, Inc. email;internet: vadimt#4cs,com title: Web Developer x-mozilla-cpt: ;0 x-mozilla-html: TRUE version: 2.1 end: vcard </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00824" HREF="msg00824.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00866.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Guilds & Politics</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00868.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Introductions and</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00864.html">Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00869.html">Circumstances & Situations</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00867"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00867"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] World Design</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00552" HREF="msg00552.html">[MUD-Dev] World Design</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 05:25 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00556" HREF="msg00556.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></strong>, Derrick Jones <a href="mailto:gunther#online1,magnus1.com">gunther#online1,magnus1.com</a>, Tue 09 Dec 1997, 07:45 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00824" HREF="msg00824.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Mon 15 Dec 1997, 00:15 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00864" HREF="msg00864.html">Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></strong>, s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Thu 18 Dec 1997, 15:35 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00867" HREF="msg00867.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></strong>, Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Thu 18 Dec 1997, 18:32 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00869" HREF="msg00869.html">Circumstances & Situations</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Thu 18 Dec 1997, 19:13 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00885" HREF="msg00885.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Circumstances & Situations</A></strong>, Richard Woolcock <a href="mailto:KaVir#dial,pipex.com">KaVir#dial,pipex.com</a>, Sat 20 Dec 1997, 02:19 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00902" HREF="msg00902.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Circumstances & Situations</A></strong>, Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Sun 21 Dec 1997, 15:38 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00932" HREF="msg00932.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Circumstances & Situations</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Tue 23 Dec 1997, 07:32 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>