<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public? --> <!--X-From-R13: [negva Yrrtna <znegvaNpnz.fev.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from major.globecomm.net [207.51.48.5] by in4.ibm.net id 869097155.42988-1 Wed Jul 16 23:52:35 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.GSO.3.96.970717003026.9947I-100000@dryslwyn --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199707160326.UAA03998#xsvr3,cup.hp.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:martin#cam,sri.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00156.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00158.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00164.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00170.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00157">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00157">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00157">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Martin Keegan <<A HREF="mailto:martin#cam,sri.com">martin#cam,sri.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 00:51:52 +0100 (BST)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Tue, 15 Jul 1997 clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote: > Writing as List Owner: You should get a separate email address called listowner@foo if muddev goes public. > A) Should the archives be requestable or browsable by non-members? > Note that this effectively makes ever poster's email address open. The archives would be of great use for brainwashing (wrong word) newcomers into "The Ways of the List" > B) Should the list be echoed (one way) to a newsgroup? If it is > echoed to a newsgroup should that group be a private group on a > private newsserver, or should I create a moderated alt.mud.development Private newsservers don't go to DejaNews. They also pose technical problems for many non-NNTP-admin users. > group? Such a group would simply have to be moderated, and each message would have to have an annoying tag appended to it telling people not to reply but to join the list, etc. > C) Should the list be split into seperate lists, divided by topic? > What should the topic splits be? (Note: I'm not keen on this motion. > Convince me) Everyone's gut reaction is no. > D) How should the list be publicised? As part of this can the current > list invitation be extended as the publicity banner, and if so, how > should it be modified? (Hey, Keegan! How about that invitation > update for the introduction message!) Sorry - my computer/email/news access has been patchy of late. Sending modified invite to you by email. Change basically mentions the intro message thing. > E) How should new membership be handled? > > Possible membership options: > > 1) Publicise the list but only allow membership by application. > ie New members would have to apply, stating *why* they should be > considered as members. These applications would be posted to the list > as well as my decisions on them. (I'm not fond of this approach for > the overhead it puts on me). > > 2) Publicise the fact of the list, but leave membership by > invitation only. Require any new member to be sponsored by an > existant member. I'm in favour of this as opposed to #1. (probably with #3 thrown in - though you need to define "actively posting") > 3) Variation on #2: require the sponsor to also be an actively > posting member. > > 4) Make membership uncontrolled. No. Your moderation power goes out the window then. > 5) Something else? "Abuse it and lose it" means that AOL will eventually have read-only access to the Net. The Net could be given read-only access to the list through the web or Usenet. Getting onto the list could be an intelligence test like on your BBS. > Note: None of this means that the list will become a flame-fest or a > counter part to the r.g.m.* newsgroups. I would continue to actively > moderate the list. Only the publicity and subscription methods of the > list would change. > Do realise however that taking the list public opens it to the Reese > idiot intolerace flames, Katrina's dunno-how-C++-works prattles, I submit that a lot of those people are fired up by the flamebouyant culture of r.g.mad, and would be able to distinguish between JCL (writing as list-owner) and JCL (anti-reset whipping boy) after a few days on the list. I don't see Reese getting himself kicked off for disobeying a "This thread dies here" request from JCL (walo). In another post, you define "infraction". Disregarding requests from the list owner ought to be included in this definition (hopefully not explicitly) > Addledbrain III's LP-is-da-deity pieties, DikuHeads R00L chants etc of Addledbrain III's blatant lies are what get to me. He's not the sort of person who'd get invited anyway, though, is he? > the world, etc and that any moderation I do will be after the fact. > As such it will potentially open us to hit-and-run attacks. I don't > think this is a huge danger, but it is present and should be > acknowledged. If the membership rules don't change much - and I don't see any reason for them to do so if the list goes public, we're already vulnerable to that sort of nonsense if one of us is a closet loser. I am in favour of a "minimalist" change to make the list public, probably by making it and its archives publicly available, and keeping membership rules as they are. As it is now, there are people who refuse to join because the thing isn't public. One problem with this approach is that newbies would have to send begging letters to list members in order to get on, and this would bring about pressure for a further liberalisation of the rules. Mk </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00170" HREF="msg00170.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00139" HREF="msg00139.html">META: Making the list public?</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00156.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00158.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] "short" Introductory Message (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00164.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00170.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00157"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00157"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00176" HREF="msg00176.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 18 Jul 1997, 08:11 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00147" HREF="msg00147.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Wed 16 Jul 1997, 21:07 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00155" HREF="msg00155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 17 Jul 1997, 04:05 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00164" HREF="msg00164.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Thu 17 Jul 1997, 21:06 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00157" HREF="msg00157.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, Martin Keegan <a href="mailto:martin#cam,sri.com">martin#cam,sri.com</a>, Thu 17 Jul 1997, 06:52 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00170" HREF="msg00170.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 18 Jul 1997, 02:34 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00167" HREF="msg00167.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 18 Jul 1997, 00:23 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00190" HREF="msg00190.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] META: Making the list public?</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 19 Jul 1997, 01:52 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00172" HREF="msg00172.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Public Archives (META: Making the list public?)</A></strong>, Brandon Gillespie <a href="mailto:brandon#roguetrader,com">brandon#roguetrader,com</a>, Fri 18 Jul 1997, 03:45 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>