<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution --> <!--X-From-R13: pynjerapNphc.uc.pbz --> <!--X-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 23:54:39 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199709172352.QAA06874#xsvr3,cup.hp.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199709160940.CAA30935#pc4,zennet.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01246.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01248.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01297.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01256.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01247">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01247">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01247">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</A></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 17 Sep 97 16:34:17 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:claw#null,net">claw#null,net</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> In <<A HREF="msg01224.html">199709160940.CAA30935#pc4,zennet.com</A>>, on 09/16/97 at 08:51 AM, "Brandon J. Rickman" <ashes#pc4,zennet.com> said: >On Mon, 8 Sep 97 21:53:33 MST, cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA > (Chris Gray) wrote: >Making things decay is tricky without introducing a weird kind of >physics. Not necessarily. You can also introduce various forms of carrion consumers (for corpses), or variant forms for the other types of decay. >...Imagine how disgusting a mud would be if every >room in the newbie area looked like this: > Happy Forestland > You stand in a clearing in the middle of Happy Forestland. The sun > is shining on the happy green trees. > Your movement is slightly hampered by the rotting corpses of several > thousand dead bunnies. > A fluffy bunny is here. With carrion consumers: Happy Forestland You stand in a clearing in the middle of Happy Forestland. The sun is shining on the happy green trees. The bloody corpse of a bunny is here. A fluffy bunny is here. A badger dashes from the woods, grabs the dead bunny, and disappears back into his set. You hear the faint sound of chewing and the pleased stomache grumbles of a well-fed badger. As always, taking a slightly different tack, I have my Trash Collectors (TC's)as discussed earlier, which have their own in-built ecology based on the avilability of objects for them to consume. They more they can eat, the more they breed (spores). They more they breed, they more they eat. If they starve to death (not enough objects to consume) their spores will hatch along later, hopefully to find more plentiful food supplies. The intended result is an entire species based on the ecology (and economy, implicitly) of the supply of "uninteresting" objects. Note: Currently my setup is over-aggressive in this regard. TC's tend to rapidly population explode as they hit a new area, and then starve to death in large numbers. The result is that the world ends up swimming in TC spores, which then hatch at a very low just-ticking-over rate, eating everthing that's available as soon as its is available, and keeping the supply of spores well stocked. I need to fiddle with the cycles there to get a more unstable relationship. >So should we dismiss corpses as being relatively uninteresting >details (aside from special corpse-related activities (hey!) like >looting and sac'ing)? I guess it depends on the situation. As discussed previously: on eapproach is to look at corpses as a resource. The question then becomes: what can I do that is interesting with this resource. >_But_ imagine a scenario where for some obscure quest I need to fill >up a sack with rabbit bones. If wholesale rabbit slaughter is a >primary focus of the newbie area, shouldn't I expect there to be at >least enough rabbit bones in the Happy Forestland to fill a sack? >Even if all the corpses had already decayed "to dust"? Given that the HFL is home to a large set of badgers, and badgers tend to treat bones much the way humans treat candy wrappers...possibly not. >(Somehow I have gotten obsessed with the specific case of corpses as >opposed to the more general case of decaying the effects of players >upon the world. But perhaps the answer is hidden in the details?) I think the problem is being looked at from the wrong end. Consider: There is a grassy field. 50 players walk in single file across the field. There is now a path across the grassy field. It rains. Time passes. The grass grows. The path dissappears. More generally this can be reduced to a question of systems and feedback points. The grassy field can be assumed to be a steady state. Once the field has achieved the state of "uniformly uninteresting grassy field", it can be considered as uncahnging from that point on. Okay, now Bubba and his trolls traverse the field. The field changes. It has left its steady state. The direction of the diversion from steady state indicated which systems will be engaged to return the field to its steady state: > look north A field of grass stretches before you. > walk north > look south A field of grass stretches behind you. The grass appears slightly mussed and disturbed in a line heading south from here. In this case the returning system could be as simple as straightening the bent grass. > l 50,000 trolls are waiting eagerly at your heels. > look north A field of grass stretches before you. > walk north The trolls follow. > look south A field of grass stretches behind you. A broad muddy road of crushed and beaten grass leads south from here. So, now we have to plant and regrow grass, with its implicit resource economies. Footprints in sand dunes, dust collections in undisturbed catacoombs, etc, can all be treated the same way. There is a presumed steady state, and a number of organic systems which attempt to re-establish that state when it is disturbed. -- J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net (Contractor) Internet: coder#ibm,net ---------------(*) Internet: clawrenc#cup,hp.com ...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01256" HREF="msg01256.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01224" HREF="msg01224.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> "Brandon J. Rickman" <ashes#pc4,zennet.com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01246.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01248.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01297.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Something complete different</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01256.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01247"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01247"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Something complete different</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01244" HREF="msg01244.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Something complete different</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 21:18 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01266" HREF="msg01266.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Something complete different</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 18 Sep 1997, 20:59 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01289" HREF="msg01289.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Something complete different</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 19 Sep 1997, 22:08 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01297" HREF="msg01297.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Something complete different</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 00:01 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01247" HREF="msg01247.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 23:54 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01256" HREF="msg01256.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Thu 18 Sep 1997, 06:25 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="01248" HREF="msg01248.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></strong>, Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Thu 18 Sep 1997, 01:56 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01250" HREF="msg01250.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></strong>, Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Thu 18 Sep 1997, 03:03 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01290" HREF="msg01290.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 19 Sep 1997, 22:30 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>