<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world --> <!--X-From-R13: ##[nxr @lynaqre <gurarjgNhfr.hfvg.arg> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 07 Sep 1997 21:57:27 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199709072156.RAA02080#use,usit.net --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:thenewt#use,usit.net"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01147.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01150.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01177.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01155.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01148">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01148">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01148">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: ##Make Nylander <<A HREF="mailto:thenewt#use,usit.net">thenewt#use,usit.net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 7 Sep 1997 17:56:03 -0400 (EDT)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> [Original message sent by Marian Griffith] | they are now it is probably even essential. Currently they are geared to- | wards what I (cautiously) would call a masculine playing style: going out | and be the strong powerfull hero by beating monsters and demons. I do not | attach any value to that but I have observed that this is the kind of thing | that is primarily enjoyed by males. The objective of most MUDs being beating monsters and demons is not necessarily because of any bias towards "male" activities but simply because of capabilities and limitations of software implementation. It all boils down to is "what motivates players to play". I assume majority of male mudders get their satisfaction out of character advancement (i.e. gaining more power within the mud world). Correspondingly, maybe "female mudders" get more enjoyment out of social interaction in the game world. Representing character advancement through implicit physical actions (e.g. killing monsters) is easy, you kill a monster, you gain experience points, you become more powerful. However, implementing an automated system for rewarding player characters for social interaction is more difficult. | list where it is somewhat inappropriate. What I -am- trying to say is that | to remain interesting in the long run and to attract a more balanced player | base a mud needs more diverse goals. I agree. I've always been more attracted by social than gaming aspects of mudding, and currently I'm trying to introduce more diversity into a MUD server I'm tinkering with. I have a game world with villages, keeps, castles and fortresses of varying sizes. In the beginning, all dwellings are controlled by NPCs, but PCs can conquer and overthrow NPC rulers. Any PC can at any time form an alliance (in Dikuish terms a "clan") with any other PC or PCs and wage war against other alliances. I'm trying to create an environment that promotes player-to-player interaction (but does not enforce it) and is fun to play, i.e. is not too complicated or "realistic" ("realistic" and "fun" aren't, of course, mutually exclusive, it just depends on your target audience -- mine are "twinkie" mudders, because I find them most amusing). The problem I've run into is how to keep PCs in-game even when their players aren't online. If I'm to allow a PC to become the High King/Queen of the Realm, then other PCs should have a chance to overthrow him/her at any time, not just when the player happens to be logged in. Turning a PC into a NPC when the player quits would be the obvious solution, but probably not the most feasible. I mean, the High King/ Queen would be most royally pissed off to log back in and find his/her character killed meanwhile. There are several alternative solutions, but the bottom line is, it's very difficult to have a persistent mud world when having non-persistent players :) PCs' actions should have lasting effects on the game world, but making these effects "irreversible" may not be feasible or even sensible. When you have new players entering the game world all the time, how do you keep their interest if all the powerful monsters have been killed, all valuables hoarded by a handful of characters (who may have already quit playing for good)...? My solution is to present players "an illusion of persistence" -- when they manage to slay a powerful wizard, instead of falling down dead the wizard disappears in a cloud of smoke shouting "I'll be back!"; when they kill every single goblin in a forest, the goblins re-appear gradually, increasing slowly in numbers; when a character dies, _that_ character is permanently dead, but the player can create a new character with almost matching qualities but with different name. Also, I'm presenting them "an illusion of power"; player characters advance very little in physical strength or combat prowess, instead, their power comes from learning in-game mechanics, contacts and interaction with other players. I perceive a MUD more as an interactive social environment than a simulation of a real world, I believe one can maintain a sense of wonder and suspension of belief with a lot of simple little tricks and bells and whistles without making the system overly complicated or technically sophisticated. -- Newt </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01155" HREF="msg01155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Miroslav Silovic <silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01147.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Invitation to mudlist, a mailinglist for concepts in mud design</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01150.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] New topic: AI and NPCs</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01177.html">Getting players to cooperate (was Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01148"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01148"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Resource management</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01241" HREF="msg01241.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Resource management</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 21:03 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01192" HREF="msg01192.html">Problems with admin thru consensus (long)</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Fri 12 Sep 1997, 17:57 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01209" HREF="msg01209.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Problems with admin thru consensus (long)</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sun 14 Sep 1997, 14:16 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01177" HREF="msg01177.html">Getting players to cooperate (was Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects)</A></strong>, Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Thu 11 Sep 1997, 10:59 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="01148" HREF="msg01148.html">[MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>, ##Make Nylander <a href="mailto:thenewt#use,usit.net">thenewt#use,usit.net</a>, Sun 07 Sep 1997, 21:57 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01155" HREF="msg01155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#mare,zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Mon 08 Sep 1997, 09:32 GMT </LI> </UL> <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="01161" HREF="msg01161.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>, Maddy <a href="mailto:maddy#fysh,org">maddy#fysh,org</a>, Mon 08 Sep 1997, 16:49 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01236" HREF="msg01236.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 16:57 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01249" HREF="msg01249.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Thu 18 Sep 1997, 02:39 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>