<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game --> <!--X-From-R13: "Fenivf Qnfrl" <rsvaqryNcbynevf.arg> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 23:52:44 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199709212344.TAA12416#polaris,net --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01346.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01348.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01334.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01316.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01347">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01347">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01347">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: "Travis Casey" <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 21 Sep 1997 19:54:59 -0400</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: "Travis Casey" <<A HREF="mailto:efindel#io,com">efindel#io,com</A>></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com> wrote: >[Caliban:] >> On Sat, 20 Sep 1997 07:22:18 PST8PDT, Matt Chatterley >> The distinction I draw here is as follows. A hack and slash game >> actively encourages anti-social behavior (fighting and killing). A > >Again, see the above. I don't agree. >IMO, adventure is the most anti-social. See my previous gripes about LPs. >Of course, I consider pick-pocketing other people (particularly my friends) >to be both fun and perfectly social. Naturally this doesn't work if people >aren't 'in' to that aspect of the game. For that matter, I played a fair >amount of multi-player Doom years ago, and I recall it being extremelly >social. Or go down to the Mac lab at the university I used to attend: >you'll always find a gaggle of bespeckled nerds playing Marathon that are >more than happy to let you hop into their game. They have a grand old time >blowing each other away. This only works, of course, if you consider >social to be interacting with others. If social is only 'Wow, we're such >good friends, I'm so glad' than I guess this doesn't work. Perhaps "positive-valued social activities" and "negative-valued social activities" are better descriptions, although I must say they're much too long. At least that terminology would recognize that one can be "social" and not be a nice person. >I strongly disagree. Adventure games could be multi-player or not, and >it makes no difference. In fact, you're better off with someone looking >over your shoulder helping you figure out puzzles than you are with another >player in the game-room with you, since most puzzle-oriented games >frown upon players working together on solving quests, and certainly >disallow any sharing knowledge of previously solved quests. That's not a problem with puzzle-solving itself, though -- just with the way the mud in question allows it. The idea of non-repeating quests has been discussed here many times -- if a mud were to implement it, it would eliminate the problem of knowledge sharing, or at least mitigate it. It's perfectly possible to set up puzzles that *require* multiple players to complete -- however, then you run into problems with players who prefer to play solo. Since I'm one of them, I wouldn't like that. :-) The best solution, IMHO, would be puzzles which are easier to handle with multiple players, but are possible for one player. >Players play the game you make. I'll say it before and I'll say it again: >calling someone a power-gamer or an RPer is about as silly as accusing someone >who happens to be eating at a mexican restaurant a Mexican. When I'm on >a hack and slash mud, I powerplay. When I'm on an RP mud or playing Rolemaster >with my friends, I role-play. Trying to force players to role-play on a >game not designed with this element at its core won't work. If players >aren't playing the game the way that you desire/think it should be played, >then you need to check your design, not the players. IMHO, this is a straw man argument. Of course no one power-games or RPs or whatever 100% of the time, but that doesn't mean that those aren't useful classifications; some people *prefer* one of those modes of play, and it can be useful to label them, *if* you remember that that doesn't mean they'll *always* play that way. To draw a parallel, my wife is a country music fan, but that doesn't mean she *only* listens to country music -- just that it's what she usually chooses to listen to. For that matter, almost everyone on this list can be usefully classified as a "mud developer" -- but I'm certain that no one on this list spends 100% of their time developing muds. -- |\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel#io,com> ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me. |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' rec.games.design FAQ: '---''(_/--' `-'\_) <A HREF="http://www.io.com/~efindel/design.html">http://www.io.com/~efindel/design.html</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01346.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01348.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface and who the hell is suppo</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01334.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01316.html">Types of game</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01347"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01347"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01504" HREF="msg01504.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sat 27 Sep 1997, 06:01 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01515" HREF="msg01515.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Usability and interface</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sat 27 Sep 1997, 23:29 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01323" HREF="msg01323.html">RE: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 19:45 GMT <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="01334" HREF="msg01334.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 02:24 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01347" HREF="msg01347.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 23:52 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01316" HREF="msg01316.html">Types of game</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 14:07 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01321" HREF="msg01321.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 19:35 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01325" HREF="msg01325.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 20 Sep 1997, 20:16 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01338" HREF="msg01338.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Types of game</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 08:58 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>