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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Matt Chatterley <<A HREF="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 6 Aug 1997 07:31:40 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:neddy#itl,net">neddy#itl,net</A></LI>
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<PRE>
On Tue, 5 Aug 1997 clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:
> In <<A HREF="msg00285.html">Pine.LNX.3.96.970730072419.133B-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org</A>>, on
> 07/29/97
> at 11:46 PM, Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org> said:
>
> >Yes. One way I reach towards some sort of development is with a
> >system of 'tribes' of monsters which behave like real population
> >groups might. Not enough time to go into depth now, though.
>
> The Orc breader/warrior/noble/king scenario which I'ce mentioned
> several times (repost on request) is a simplistic to implement and
> surprisingly complex and detailed in practice in the game. What I
> find most interesting is that it is purely a linear extrapolation of a
> couple base principles:
Your orc example is probably what sparked my idea; I don't actually
recall wholly, but thinking back, it seems the same premise. It's
certainly not hard to implement, even in a generalised form.
> Think of a neat/elegant system which uses a feedback loop to
> establish a desired state.
>
> Extend the same feedback loop to also remove the desired state once
> established.
>
> Repeat repeatedly with new feedback loops which affect the same
> tokens modified by the first two clauses.
Yup. One example of how I apply this system of logic: A population of
Kobolds in the hills by a town grows, hampered by natural predators
(virtually anything that can stomach them, which isn't really much at the
end of the day - but many NPCs and PCs will attack on sight). If their
population passes a certain amount, there is a mounting probability they
will send a scouting party to a nearby town. If it passes another higher
amount, they will send a small party to attack its borders, and if it
passes a third, even higher amount, they will send a war party to attack
it. This of course reduces their population and returns us to the
beginning. There is a capacity for the population to permanently increase,
but this is fairly unlikely given players hunting them for bounties on
occasion.
> The result is an unstable system which builds to a state, tears it
> down, rebuilds it etc, all dynamically and without any concept of a
> reset. Given a little elegance in the feedback design, or enough
> compeating loops, the teardowns can be to any of a large number of
> possible states, and the build-ups can equally be to any number of
> other possible states. The only requirement is that there be multiple
> loops attempting teardown/buildup to different targets.
>
> The Orcs were a very nice case in point. So did the wandering
> population model I used for the "rescue the kidnapped princess quest"
> scenario here.
Heh, Heh.
> >> Now, I know the arguments against it; it's expensive (man hours,
> >> money, computation, space, etc). You can trick the player into
> >> thinking it is there when it really isn't, far more cheaply. (And in
> >> fact, we have used "cheats" many places where portions of the model
> >> were deemed less important to actually simulate, but we needed the
> >> appearance). But having a solid sim layer enables so much... and it
> >> renders future growth possible. For one thing, the next direction
> >> which I would like to take it is towards conquering that last barrier
> >> of "staticness"--changing the setting based on simulated environmental
> >> factors. Given a good model, there is no reason why roads could not be
> >> formed by players as they walk on the grass repeatedly and kill it.
> >> And so on.
>
> <cheer!>
>
> Agreed. Build a system that runs itself, that grows, dies, changes,
> mutates, and generally has *some* form of inbuilt ecology, and you
> have just created a vast pre-functioning play yard for players to have
> fun int, and affect.
A true 'virtual world', as it were.
Regards,
-Matt Chatterley
<A HREF="http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html">http://user.itl.net/~neddy/index.html</A>
"Speak softly and carry a big stick." -Theodore Roosevelt
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Dynamic Descriptions</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00589" HREF="msg00589.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Dynamic Descriptions</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 23:12 GMT
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</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00270" HREF="msg00270.html">[MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Tue 29 Jul 1997, 23:45 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00285" HREF="msg00285.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 30 Jul 1997, 13:44 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00404" HREF="msg00404.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 06 Aug 1997, 03:02 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00410" HREF="msg00410.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 06 Aug 1997, 13:32 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00288" HREF="msg00288.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Wed 30 Jul 1997, 15:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00418" HREF="msg00418.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 07 Aug 1997, 00:21 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00295" HREF="msg00295.html">Worlds VS Games, etc {was GMuds, UO}</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 03:37 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00298" HREF="msg00298.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 31 Jul 1997, 06:26 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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