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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Greg Munt <<A HREF="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 20:12:51 +0100 (GMT+0100)</LI>
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<PRE>
On Thu, 7 Aug 1997, Chris Gray wrote:
> Some traditional languages have been specifically designed, mostly in
> the Algol/Pascal/Ada line. Others have "grown", such as the C/C++ line.
> Most research languages have also been more design than evolution. Both
> approaches have good and bad points. Designed languages can often show
> the bias of their designers (whether an individual or a committee).
> Grown languages often end up with misfeatures and too many ways to do
> the same thing. It is interesting that the languages that have made it
> to the "mainstream" have mostly been "grown" languages: Cobol, Fortran,
> C, C++. I'll guess and say that this is because most programmers don't
> care what the language they use is like - they just want something that
> lets them do what they want to do, and is widely available.
What I am specifically after are good and bad features of languages. I am
only really aware of 'generic' languages such as C++, not languages
geared towards a specific purpose. Examples of certain language features,
and why they are a part of that language, are what I am after, really.
Is anyone familiar with OOPLs such as Eiffel or Smalltalk? Are there any
features that they have, that would be particularly useful to programming
a mud, specifically?
One of my contributors mentioned how much they liked the 'scoping' of
Pascal a week or two ago. Things like strongly typed, weakly typed - what
does this actually *mean*? Is it simply that the types of function params
are specified in advance? Or am I thinking along the wrong lines? Or is
it that there is a bit more to it than I am aware of?
Are there any specific things that I should be aware of, when designing a
language? (I am not interested in implementation issues atm.)
> I've used quite a few (as, I suspect, have a few of the other older
> members of this list), including APL, AlgolW, Algol68, Pascal, Lisp,
> Basic, Fortran, Forth, several assemblers, and a few languages of my
> own design.
Of these languages, which features do you like? Which don't you like? Why?
Is it possible to say, in general terms, what makes a bad programming
language? And what makes a good one?
I know someone who is looking into dynamic linking of object files into a
running executable. Has anyone here done anything like this?
> If the language you create/use is familiar to a lot of your workers, then
> it is easier to get them to work in it, since there is less learning
> curve, and there is the "instant gratification" that can be so important
> in getting people motivated. I essentially did that with my system, but
> since I knew that I was going to be the only user for a while, I chose
> to make my language like other languages I had designed, and not like
> any mainstream languages. My dislike for many mainstream languages, and
> the simplicity of parsing my own languages influenced this a lot, too.
What is it that you dislike about mainstream languages? Why?
> :The model I am thinking of is an extra layer added onto the standard 6-layer
> :VM. This would involve a driver/lib combination like LP/Cold, yes?
>
> Sorry, I don't grok a "standard 6-layer VM".
Maybe I used incorrect terminology.
5 [ PROBLEM-ORIENTATED LANGUAGE LEVEL ]
4 [ ASSEMBLY LANGUAGE LEVEL ]
3 [ OPERATING SYSTEM MACHINE LEVEL ]
2 [ CONVENTIONAL MACHINE LEVEL ]
1 [ MICROPROGRAMMING LEVEL ]
0 [ DIGITAL LOGIC LEVEL ]
These are the 6 layers to which I was referring. To move from one level
to another, compilation/interpretation is required. Adding another level
on top is what I *think* something like LPC does. Maybe, maybe not.
Is anyone aware of any sort of comparison between languages, showing
levels of suitability for various tasks?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Scratch muds can only ever be leaves of The Mud Tree."
Discuss, using obscure references.
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00528" HREF="msg00528.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00441" HREF="msg00441.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Miroslav Silovic <silovic#petra,zesoi.fer.hr></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="00436" HREF="msg00436.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> burrito#darklock,com (Captain Burrito)</li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00424" HREF="msg00424.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Quad-trees/Oct-trees</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00429" HREF="msg00429.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Quad-trees/Oct-trees</A></strong>,
Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Fri 08 Aug 1997, 14:41 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00527" HREF="msg00527.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Introduction</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 00:00 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00424" HREF="msg00424.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Thu 07 Aug 1997, 17:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00427" HREF="msg00427.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Fri 08 Aug 1997, 04:24 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00433" HREF="msg00433.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Fri 08 Aug 1997, 19:18 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00436" HREF="msg00436.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
Captain Burrito <a href="mailto:burrito#darklock,com">burrito#darklock,com</a>, Sat 09 Aug 1997, 01:02 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00441" HREF="msg00441.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#petra,zesoi.fer.hr">silovic#petra,zesoi.fer.hr</a>, Sat 09 Aug 1997, 02:58 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00457" HREF="msg00457.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Sun 10 Aug 1997, 21:03 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00528" HREF="msg00528.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Mud Languages</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 14 Aug 1997, 00:09 GMT
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