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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Nathan Yospe <<A HREF="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 11:21:10 -1000</LI>
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<PRE>
On Tue, 16 Sep 1997, Matt Chatterley wrote:
:On Wed, 17 Sep 1997, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
:> Might I call them 'solo-hack-n-slash' muds?
:Since I would depict this as 'one type' of game, I have no objection. This
:is also quite a good term as it is simple, and fully self explanatory.
We've been dealing with four elements lately: group dynamics, methods of
play/advancement toward goals, social dynamics, and world dynamics. As far
as I can tell, S/HnS is zero GD, combat-oriented goals, unspecified SD,
and generally minimal WD.
:> > Or where players are 'subtly' thrown together to cooperate against the
:> > environment.
:> Yep. Being subtle is a key element. Player's should be given the
:> opportunity of discovering these subtle mechanics. Once the
:> subtleties are known and repeatably exercised dynamics may change.
So make them impossible to determine short of an effort similar to that of a
RL physicist?
:Yup. Subtlety is very important (even if I can't spell it). I suspect
:players would complain if there were a written stipulation that they play
:in teams of certain numbers - whereas if the game nudges them into doing
:so, very few will harbour such a grumble.
True.
:> Direct group mechanics. Your adventuring party would fall within
:> this category, as well as haggling, bartering, trading, socializing
:> at the individual level.
:Yup. Something along the lines of 'shared and unshared skills and
:abilities' too?
How about things like accidental trapping of another player in your bear
trap?
:> Indirect group mechanics. Economy, ecology, politics.
:Eg, things with globally reaching influence, both social and actual?
Engineering a plague.
:> A simple but odd example:
:> 1) Players kill all the cats in Ithaca or King Bubba decrees all cats
:> are illegal.
:> 2) Rat population increases.
:> 3) Grain storage decreases.
:> 4) Disease chance increases.
:> 5) Bread prices inflate.
:> 6) Population begins to decline.
:> 7) Boffo makes a killing importing dogs from Troy.
:> 8) The alchemist Al finds en excellent source of income in selling
:> poisons.
:> 9) Bob starts a grain import business.
:> 10) Perhaps at some threshold the peasants revolt and depose King
:> Bubba or attempt to lynch the offending players.
:> 11) Bob goes bankrupt.
:> 12) Boffo now imports cats as well.
:> 13) Bread prices deflate.
:> 14) Al has stumbled onto something a bit more deadly...
:> ...
:Woah. :)
I like this. A lot.
:[Snip]
:> Part of the problem with the solo-hack-n-slash mud is the ability for
:> characters to become jack-of-all-trades. There are a few likely
:> causes. Skill advancement is too fast and there are so few really
:> used/useful skills available that it's easily possible to build the
:> perfect character in short order through min/maxing, remorting, etc.
:Definitely! I intend for PCs to only be able to become proficient in
:chains of things which make 'sense' together (by implementing something
:along the lines of skill decay, in part).
My skill webs are of this sort. Decay, but even more important, relational
maintainance of skills. If a set of related skills support each other, the
tendancy is toward maintaining one or two major sets of skills.
:> You mention the amassing of player armies. The cost and logistics in
:> labor and resources would be vast. The effects of this on local
:> economies can be both explosive and devastating, even excluding the
:> effects of actual warfare (the old guns or butter issues). Then
:> there's those elusive things called morale, training, and readiness
:> which might make it all for naught.
:Absolutely. This will probably work over long periods of time (both real
:and virtual), and from a small point up. If you have the money to finance
:a large or modest army from scratch, good for you - if you can't, you need
:to work up from something smaller. For instance, Robin Hood's merry men,
:or a band of thugs (synonymous with each other, based on your
:perspective).
Not to mention the results of armies looting as they move for food, or to
screw the enemy... in fantasy, this becomes a major issue. (In sci-fi, it
does as well, but in other ways.)
:> > There will probably be some means for entering the 'higher up' positions
:> > in guilds (since the guild will only be a small group to start with).
:> > Pondering this in more detail at the moment. :)
:> I was thinking along the lines of traditional medieval occupational
:> guilds and other organizations like schools, universities, political
:> and religious institutions, in addition to player implemented
:> societies. Some might be already in-place thematic constructs and
:> while others might be primarily social player constructs.
:Could be interesting. Think along the line of the guilds in Pratchett's
:Discworld books. ;)
Flautist playing without a licence walks with a stiff gait? (I feel sorry for
the tuba player. Not to mention the drummer.)
I'd like to see someone set up a seamstresses' guild. Mrs. Palm in a mud?
--
"You? We can't take you," said the Dean, glaring at the Librarian.
"You don't know a thing about guerilla warfare." - Reaper Man,
Nathan F. Yospe Registered Looney by Terry Pratchett
yospe#hawaii,edu <A HREF="http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe">http://www2.hawaii.edu/~yospe</A> Meow
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="01336" HREF="msg01336.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul>
<li><strong><A NAME="01246" HREF="msg01246.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul>
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="01235" HREF="msg01235.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
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<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
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<LI><strong><A NAME="01225" HREF="msg01225.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 16 Sep 1997, 14:45 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01226" HREF="msg01226.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Tue 16 Sep 1997, 16:14 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01231" HREF="msg01231.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 05:25 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01235" HREF="msg01235.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 16:20 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01245" HREF="msg01245.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 21:22 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01246" HREF="msg01246.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 17 Sep 1997, 22:00 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01336" HREF="msg01336.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sun 21 Sep 1997, 07:49 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="01374" HREF="msg01374.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Mon 22 Sep 1997, 23:26 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="01401" HREF="msg01401.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Affecting the world</A></strong>,
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 24 Sep 1997, 00:04 GMT
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