<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary -->
<!--X-From-R13: @vxynf Syzdivfg <q97ryzNqgrx.punyzref.fr> -->
<!--X-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:09:16 -0800 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: Pine.SOL.3.96.981026001205.4276A-100000#licia,dtek.chalmers.se -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: 98102515585808.22929@d185d1e96 -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">
<font size="+4" color="#804040">
<strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
</font>
<br>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->
Date:
[ <a href="msg00501.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00503.html">Next</a>
]
Thread:
[ <a href="msg00498.html">Previous</a>
| <a href="msg00499.html">Next</a>
]
Index:
[ <A HREF="author.html#00502">Author</A>
| <A HREF="#00502">Date</A>
| <A HREF="thread.html#00502">Thread</A>
]
<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Niklas Elmqvist <<A HREF="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:22:18 +0100 (MET)</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, James Wilson wrote:
> On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Niklas Elmqvist wrote:
>
> >class CallPipe : public Pipe {
> >private:
> > FunctionPtr *hFun1, *hFun2;
> >public:
> > ..
> > virtual void Send(ModuleID hSrc, ModuleID hDst, Message *hMsg);
> > virtual void Recv(..)
> > ..
> >}
> >
>
> [other kinds of Pipes snipped]
>
> thanks for the example, it made things much clearer. the pattern
> here is asynchronous message-passing, as found in, for instance,
> PVM, which is well-suited to highly decoupled parallel systems.
> If this is what people want, PVM already does this beautifully and
> there's even a distributed FS for it.
Well, I would argue that there are other servers which do MUDs quite
beautifully. Why do we need DevMUD, then?
> However, message-passing like this adds considerable programming
> complexity to simple operations. Every function call into other modules
> has to be done as Send and Recv pairs, where the next Message Recv'd
> isn't necessarily what you wanted:
>
> /* try to get object 'foo' */
>
> g_mainbus->Send (module_a, DB_MODULE, /* deliver foo or else! */);
> Message *gotfoo = g_mainbus->Recv (module_a);
>
> /* simultaneously, in some other meddling module... */
>
> g_mainbus->Send (module_meddler, module_a, /* you go to hell! */);
>
> so, back in module_a, we get 'you go to hell!' instead of 'foo'.
> Checking this on EVERY FUNCTION CALL would get quite tedious
> and add a performance hit. Moreover it's more prone to breakage
> by newbie module-programmers for whom parallel systems are
> mysterious.
Okay. I see your point. But if we want distribution, we need this anyway.
*shrug*
And yes, I am starting to hear your arguments here. I always thought a
pipe-like mechanism would be a very nice O-O abstraction for my own MUD
(although I at first envisioned something Chris Gray so aptly named "water
sprinkler"), but what you are saying is starting to make sense. The moral
of this story is: "abstraction is good, but to a degree only", a slightly
revamped version of my initial statement.
But please let us contain function pointers as function objects. It
not only looks cleaner to my O-O sensitive eyes, that way, we can also
easily subclass them and add state for some reason. (Of course, since I
have not thought this through, I may be rambling :)
> I fully agree that abstractions are important. This seems like rather
> an extreme way to do it though, which to me is only really justified
> in a distributed system.
Agreed.
> James
-- Niklas Elmqvist (d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se) ----------------------
"The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to
pray to."
-- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods
</PRE>
<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00498" HREF="msg00498.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> James Wilson <jwilson#rochester,rr.com></LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00501.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00503.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00498.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00499.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00502"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00502"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00470" HREF="msg00470.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 02:02 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00492" HREF="msg00492.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 17:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00495" HREF="msg00495.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 19:45 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00498" HREF="msg00498.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 21:10 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00502" HREF="msg00502.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Mon 26 Oct 1998, 00:09 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00499" HREF="msg00499.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 21:51 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00501" HREF="msg00501.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 23:08 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00506" HREF="msg00506.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 26 Oct 1998, 02:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00513" HREF="msg00513.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>,
Alex Oren <a href="mailto:alexo#bigfoot,com">alexo#bigfoot,com</a>, Mon 26 Oct 1998, 10:05 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[ <a href="../">Other Periods</a>
| <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
| <a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>
