<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary --> <!--X-From-R13: @vxynf Syzdivfg <q97ryzNqgrx.punyzref.fr> --> <!--X-Date: Sun, 25 Oct 1998 16:09:16 -0800 --> <!--X-Message-Id: Pine.SOL.3.96.981026001205.4276A-100000#licia,dtek.chalmers.se --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 98102515585808.22929@d185d1e96 --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00501.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00503.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00498.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00499.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00502">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00502">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00502">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Niklas Elmqvist <<A HREF="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:22:18 +0100 (MET)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, James Wilson wrote: > On Sun, 25 Oct 1998, Niklas Elmqvist wrote: > > >class CallPipe : public Pipe { > >private: > > FunctionPtr *hFun1, *hFun2; > >public: > > .. > > virtual void Send(ModuleID hSrc, ModuleID hDst, Message *hMsg); > > virtual void Recv(..) > > .. > >} > > > > [other kinds of Pipes snipped] > > thanks for the example, it made things much clearer. the pattern > here is asynchronous message-passing, as found in, for instance, > PVM, which is well-suited to highly decoupled parallel systems. > If this is what people want, PVM already does this beautifully and > there's even a distributed FS for it. Well, I would argue that there are other servers which do MUDs quite beautifully. Why do we need DevMUD, then? > However, message-passing like this adds considerable programming > complexity to simple operations. Every function call into other modules > has to be done as Send and Recv pairs, where the next Message Recv'd > isn't necessarily what you wanted: > > /* try to get object 'foo' */ > > g_mainbus->Send (module_a, DB_MODULE, /* deliver foo or else! */); > Message *gotfoo = g_mainbus->Recv (module_a); > > /* simultaneously, in some other meddling module... */ > > g_mainbus->Send (module_meddler, module_a, /* you go to hell! */); > > so, back in module_a, we get 'you go to hell!' instead of 'foo'. > Checking this on EVERY FUNCTION CALL would get quite tedious > and add a performance hit. Moreover it's more prone to breakage > by newbie module-programmers for whom parallel systems are > mysterious. Okay. I see your point. But if we want distribution, we need this anyway. *shrug* And yes, I am starting to hear your arguments here. I always thought a pipe-like mechanism would be a very nice O-O abstraction for my own MUD (although I at first envisioned something Chris Gray so aptly named "water sprinkler"), but what you are saying is starting to make sense. The moral of this story is: "abstraction is good, but to a degree only", a slightly revamped version of my initial statement. But please let us contain function pointers as function objects. It not only looks cleaner to my O-O sensitive eyes, that way, we can also easily subclass them and add state for some reason. (Of course, since I have not thought this through, I may be rambling :) > I fully agree that abstractions are important. This seems like rather > an extreme way to do it though, which to me is only really justified > in a distributed system. Agreed. > James -- Niklas Elmqvist (d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se) ---------------------- "The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to pray to." -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00498" HREF="msg00498.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> James Wilson <jwilson#rochester,rr.com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00501.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00503.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00498.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00499.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00502"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00502"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00470" HREF="msg00470.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 02:02 GMT </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00492" HREF="msg00492.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 17:28 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00495" HREF="msg00495.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 19:45 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00498" HREF="msg00498.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 21:10 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00502" HREF="msg00502.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Mon 26 Oct 1998, 00:09 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00499" HREF="msg00499.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 21:51 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00501" HREF="msg00501.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 23:08 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00506" HREF="msg00506.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 26 Oct 1998, 02:54 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00513" HREF="msg00513.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></strong>, Alex Oren <a href="mailto:alexo#bigfoot,com">alexo#bigfoot,com</a>, Mon 26 Oct 1998, 10:05 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>