<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language --> <!--X-From-R13: Xba Zrbaneq <wyrbaneqNqvipbz.fyvzl.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:15:51 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 19981024151053.B7084#divcom,slimy.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 19981022201421.35827#moos,ml.org --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00461.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00463.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00367.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00466.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00462">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00462">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00462">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Jon Leonard <<A HREF="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 24 Oct 1998 15:10:53 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Cc</em>: Jon Leonard <<A HREF="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Thu, Oct 22, 1998 at 08:14:21PM -0400, Hal Black wrote: > Okay, this is a totally off the wall and demented idea I'd like to throw out: It's off the wall and demented, but I think we can't throw it away completely. (And yes, I'm going to throw up some web pages soon.) > To provide an event model (i.e. state changing through time on a schedule with > contention resolution), how about mutating VHDL to be mudlike and then using > that as the mud language? I know Verilog lots better than VHDL, (I'm paid to design chips in Verilog) so I may get the semantics a bit wrong. Shouldn't matter much: from the remote perspective of a MUD developer, they're pretty similar. Some aspects of programming in HDLs (Hardware Description Languages) are usefully transferable to MUD design, and some are experiences while not transferrable. The model of a large system as a collection of pieces all working in parallel (with explicit handshakes) can be useful. Scheduling things via things like "do this 5 time units into the future" is a useful model for doing long-running processes. I also like debugging with waveforms. It's really nice to be able to see relevant variables vs. their values over time. I can literally see where and when the simulation went wrong. There are other things about working in HDLs don't map nearly so usefully. Explicit bit widths: In a software world, I just want all my variables to be wide enough. The savings of narrower variables just aren't worth having to declare every variable and constant with a width. "Here's a 17-bit integer." and "This should be less that 20, compared as a 12 bit number." hurt readability, and there's no speed gain for doing it. Extra bit states: Support for strong and weak drive strengths, along with high-impedance and unknown values is wasteful in non-hardware environments. Just give me 0 and 1. The time model is really wierd, too. The concept of simulation time isn't very useful in a MUD where everything should work according to real time. Similarly, there isn't a need for clock signals. [pseudo-VHDL pseudocode trimmed] Jon Leonard </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00466" HREF="msg00466.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> J C Lawrence <claw#kanga,nu></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00367" HREF="msg00367.html">[MUD-Dev] DevMUD Event Language</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Hal Black <hal#moos,ml.org></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00461.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud, Gamora and Casbah</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00463.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: PDMud thread summary</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00367.html">[MUD-Dev] DevMUD Event Language</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00466.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00462"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00462"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00411" HREF="msg00411.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Crack.Com deceased, Golgotha source released (sorta)</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 20:16 GMT </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00407" HREF="msg00407.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Crack.Com deceased</A></strong>, Marc Hernandez <a href="mailto:marc#jb,com">marc#jb,com</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 18:30 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00399" HREF="msg00399.html">[MUD-Dev] Game Developers Conference</A></strong>, Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Fri 23 Oct 1998, 15:35 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00367" HREF="msg00367.html">[MUD-Dev] DevMUD Event Language</A></strong>, Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Thu 22 Oct 1998, 23:56 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00462" HREF="msg00462.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Sat 24 Oct 1998, 22:15 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00466" HREF="msg00466.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 00:20 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00468" HREF="msg00468.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</A></strong>, James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 01:49 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00469" HREF="msg00469.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD Event Language</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 01:58 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00478" HREF="msg00478.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: CVS and LXR</A></strong>, bruce <a href="mailto:bruce#portland,puremagic.com">bruce#portland,puremagic.com</a>, Sun 25 Oct 1998, 07:31 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>