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<H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Quest engines</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Quest engines</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:ApplePiMan#aol,com">ApplePiMan#aol,com</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 3 Oct 1998 22:21:31 EDT</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI>
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<PRE>
At 10/3/98 12:11 PM Raph Koster (rkoster#origin,ea.com) altered the
fabric of reality by uttering:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Wilson [<A HREF="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com</A>]
>> Sent: Saturday, October 03, 1998 12:30 PM
>> To: mud-dev#kanga,nu; Koster, Raph
>> Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Storytelling vs. Simulationist
>> (Was Re: Room
>> de scriptions)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, 03 Oct 1998, Koster, Raph wrote:
>>
>> >Missed this the first time around--but in any case--there's
>> no question
>> >that you can get by with less admins. There are MANY systems
>> out there
>> >for story generation and quest management... just damn few
>> are in muds.
>> >Plenty of "quest engines" and "storytelling engines" have been
>> >designed--heck, I've designed three myself.
>>
>> can you give some details?
>
>Uh, sure. :) I guess the basics are something that can easily be
>discussed without violating confidentiality. I've moved this thread to a
>new title to reflect the change in topic.
>
>Most quest engines rely on basic plot elements that are combined and
>recombined in interesting ways. The strength of them is that you can
>build an easily extendable database to generate a TON of unique quests.
>The weakness--quests can seem rote or repetitious or simplistic, and the
>work involved in making the database large enough to prevent this
>problem is very large.
Keeping plots fresh and pertinent, and taking into account world history,
are indeed the problems that can't adequately be addressed
programmatically (as far as I can see) by a system with this sort of
combinatory engine at its core. Your database will require a steady flood
of new plot elements to keep it vital.
<snipped long example of combinatory quest generator>
>The hard parts:
>
>- Error handling--multiple people participating; someone may find the
>guy in the alley BEFORE the girl crying, for example; or they may get
>the fourth amulet for the mage not knowing that there's a guy out there
>with the third one; or they may kill the spider queen outright instead
>of asking for her help. You can handle these sorts of problems in
>various ways.
>- Making it fictionally compelling. If you make them go after things
>that do not seem to have significance, it'll feel rote and stupid. It
>may still feel rote and stupid anyway, if you don't have enough
>variations.
And another hard one for "extra credit" =) (though this could and should
actually be subsumed by the "making it fictionally compelling" point):
determining which pieces to put together in what order to produce the
storyline with the most (literary) conflict. Pure random selection can
also lead to rote and stupid stories, or contradictory ones, even with
individual pieces that are worthy individually.
It's in deciding at what scale to implement the stories, tweaking the
basic engine and working out solutions to the "hard parts" that
proprietary systems are born. =)
-Rick.
---------------------------------------------------------
Rick Buck, President and CEO <<A HREF="mailto:rlb#big-i,com">mailto:rlb#big-i,com</A>>
Beyond Infinity Games, Inc.
See you in The Metaverse! <<A HREF="http://www.big-i.com">http://www.big-i.com</A>>
</PRE>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00064" HREF="msg00064.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sun 04 Oct 1998, 03:41 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00065" HREF="msg00065.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction</A></strong>,
ApplePiMan <a href="mailto:ApplePiMan#aol,com">ApplePiMan#aol,com</a>, Sun 04 Oct 1998, 05:08 GMT
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00059" HREF="msg00059.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: [Off-Topic] Patents (Was Re: Storytelling vs. Simulationist)</A></strong>,
ApplePiMan <a href="mailto:ApplePiMan#aol,com">ApplePiMan#aol,com</a>, Sun 04 Oct 1998, 00:14 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00050" HREF="msg00050.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Quest engines</A></strong>,
Koster, Raph <a href="mailto:rkoster#origin,ea.com">rkoster#origin,ea.com</a>, Sat 03 Oct 1998, 18:06 GMT
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00061" HREF="msg00061.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Quest engines</A></strong>,
ApplePiMan <a href="mailto:ApplePiMan#aol,com">ApplePiMan#aol,com</a>, Sun 04 Oct 1998, 02:23 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00089" HREF="msg00089.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Quest engines</A></strong>,
Michael.Willey <a href="mailto:Michael.Willey#abnamro,com">Michael.Willey#abnamro,com</a>, Mon 05 Oct 1998, 20:19 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00095" HREF="msg00095.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Quest engines</A></strong>,
Hal Black <a href="mailto:hal#moos,ml.org">hal#moos,ml.org</a>, Mon 05 Oct 1998, 23:47 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00049" HREF="msg00049.html">[MUD-Dev] simulation vs. storytelling is a fallacious distinction</A></strong>,
James Wilson <a href="mailto:jwilson#rochester,rr.com">jwilson#rochester,rr.com</a>, Sat 03 Oct 1998, 17:50 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00043" HREF="msg00043.html">[MUD-Dev] [DESIGN] To kill or not to kill? (non-violent conflict)</A></strong>,
The Wildman <a href="mailto:wildman#microserve,net">wildman#microserve,net</a>, Sat 03 Oct 1998, 15:36 GMT
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>
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