<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals --> <!--X-From-R13: Xba Zrbaneq <wyrbaneqNqvipbz.fyvzl.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:27:09 -0700 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 19981019182201.A6431#divcom,slimy.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199810192337.RAA18441@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00253.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00255.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00268.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00257.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00254">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00254">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00254">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Jon Leonard <<A HREF="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 19 Oct 1998 18:22:01 -0700</LI> <LI><em>Cc</em>: Jon Leonard <<A HREF="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Mon, Oct 19, 1998 at 05:37:55PM -0600, Chris Gray wrote: > [Jon Leonard:] > > >Even if there isn't interest, figuring out a base feature set would be > >useful, and I'd extract parts of my own server to match. (I have a fully > >RFC compliant telnet server, which I could disentangle from the rest of my > >code, for example.) > > Hmm. That's just what I'm working on now. Stole the code from earlier > stuff. Do you handle all of the RFC's, including things like LINEMODE? > I was planning on cleaning up my stuff when done and offering it as an > example of telnet handling. Two examples are likely better than one! The RFC allows a compliant implementation to respond "No, I don't do that." to options it doesn't feel like supporting. I used this freedom a lot. The version I have properly keeps track of who is responsible for echoing characters, and declines to do anything with the other options. I rely on line-mode being the default in local echo, and my server makes no attempt to use character mode (I do use server echo for password entry). > >If there isn't a clear idea of what would be a useful base to extend on, > >that says something very interesting about the future of MUD design. > > Perhaps that a lot of those writing servers from scratch are doing it > mostly for fun? Either that or are doing commercial projects where the > use of outside code might present legal problems? > :-) The for fun aspect I'll certainly buy. Legal aspects of reusing code definitely contributed to my starting over from scratch. That's why I recommend a very flexible license for such code. I put my MUD socket example code in the public domain for a reason. (Yes, I really don't mind if people take that chunk of code and strip my name off of it, etc.) I'm envisioning stuff where the only reasons not to use it are: 1) It's not doing what you want. 2) Starting from scratch is more fun. 3) You already have something better for your purposes. I don't think there's an available MUD server like that yet. > I'd be game to do an in-MUD programming language component, but I betcha > few people would like the language (mostly strongly typed, syntax not > at all like C, etc.) My Lisp-like language would probably be as unpopular as your language. I think a better approach would be to figure out what kind of primitives a language might need from the rest of the server. That lets us have several different languages (possibly simultaneously), as tastes will vary. I don't think a single monolithic server would be flexible enough for what most of us are interested in. I'd build a mix and match collection of components for things like internal language. Some successful MUDs don't have internal languages at all, and that's a model we should support too. Jon Leonard </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00257" HREF="msg00257.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00252" HREF="msg00252.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Chris Gray <cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00253.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00255.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00268.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00257.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00254"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00254"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 00:05 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00255" HREF="msg00255.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 01:37 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00259" HREF="msg00259.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#kanga,nu">claw#kanga,nu</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 02:49 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00268" HREF="msg00268.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 06:01 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00254" HREF="msg00254.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 01:27 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00257" HREF="msg00257.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 02:24 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00261" HREF="msg00261.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 04:27 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00270" HREF="msg00270.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Tue 20 Oct 1998, 10:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00279" HREF="msg00279.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Bruce Sterling on Virtual Community goals</A></strong>, Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,slimy.com">jleonard#divcom,slimy.com</a>, Wed 21 Oct 1998, 01:05 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>