<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: [MUD-Dev] resource management (was: Missing the point) --> <!--X-From-R13: "Tryvk O. Qebrf" <sryvkNqjbexva.ay> --> <!--X-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 08:17:10 -0800 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199810281538.QAA21363#pattern,dworkin.nl --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, [MUD-Dev] resource management (was: Missing the point)</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:felix#dworkin,nl"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00567.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00569.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00666.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00566.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00568">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00568">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00568">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>[MUD-Dev] resource management (was: Missing the point)</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: [MUD-Dev] resource management (was: Missing the point)</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: "Felix A. Croes" <<A HREF="mailto:felix#dworkin,nl">felix#dworkin,nl</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 28 Oct 1998 16:38:47 +0100 (CET)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#kanga,nu">mud-dev#kanga,nu</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> "Bruce Mitchener, Jr." <bruce#puremagic,com> wrote: > On Tuesday, October 27, 1998, Chris Gray wrote: > >[Bruce Mitchener, Jr.:] > > > > >for x in [1 .. 100000000000000] { > > > /* don't run out of ticks */ > > > refresh(); > > > y += "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"; > > >} >[...] > The problem isn't execution time. The problem is that 'y' will soon be very > large and handling out-of-memory situations is difficult. Right now, if > Genesis runs out of memory, it shuts down. This is obviously non-optimal. > This isn't an issue of imposing a maximum size on a data stored by a > variable, since someone could just create lots of variables. That continues > on up to task-groups. I'm trying to find a nice way to handle > resource-accounting where as little of it is in the driver as possible, but > is still extensible by the DB code. Even with this, there are problems. If > quota-tracking (how many bytes of objects a user may have), then one could > bloat up some objects and bring them into memory to trigger an out-of-memory > condition. > > This greatly affects the security of a system that allows for free-user > programming. As far as I know, MOO has this problem as well. I don't know > about Muq, DGD, or MudOS. It is worse for DGD, because DGD has shared arrays. During execution of an LPC thread, they may even be shared between objects -- only if no LPC code is currently executing does the server know which object data belongs to. Maintaining a notion of ownership during execution is possible (counting datastructures shared by two objects as belonging to both) but would involve considerable overhead. I could just replace shared arrays by unique ones a la MOO, but I like shared arrays. They are useful for self-referential datastructures, among other things. Also, I suspect that in moderately-complex mudlibs, some form of shared data would creep back in on a higher abstraction level, one way or another. > Am I just missing something obvious? I think the problem is actually hard to solve properly. I have not even attempted to deal with it, yet. I did work on managing other resources, see <A HREF="http://www.kanga.nu/~petidomo/lists/mud-dev/1997Q3/msg01200.html">http://www.kanga.nu/~petidomo/lists/mud-dev/1997Q3/msg01200.html</A> Felix Croes </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00567.html">[MUD-Dev] Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00569.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Missing the point: OpenMUD, Gamora, Casbah, etc.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00666.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD: Inheritable modules</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00566.html">[MUD-Dev] Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00568"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00568"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD: Inheritable modules</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00615" HREF="msg00615.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD: Inheritable modules</A></strong>, Thandor <a href="mailto:thandor#donut,dhis.org">thandor#donut,dhis.org</a>, Sat 31 Oct 1998, 04:29 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00637" HREF="msg00637.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD: Inheritable modules</A></strong>, The Arrow <a href="mailto:arrow#trelleborg,mail.telia.com">arrow#trelleborg,mail.telia.com</a>, Sat 31 Oct 1998, 21:07 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00654" HREF="msg00654.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD: Inheritable modules</A></strong>, Thandor <a href="mailto:thandor#donut,dhis.org">thandor#donut,dhis.org</a>, Sun 01 Nov 1998, 02:53 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00666" HREF="msg00666.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: DevMUD: Inheritable modules</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sun 01 Nov 1998, 08:34 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00568" HREF="msg00568.html">[MUD-Dev] resource management (was: Missing the point)</A></strong>, Felix A. Croes <a href="mailto:felix#dworkin,nl">felix#dworkin,nl</a>, Wed 28 Oct 1998, 16:17 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00566" HREF="msg00566.html">[MUD-Dev] Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd)</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Wed 28 Oct 1998, 14:05 GMT <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="00567" HREF="msg00567.html">[MUD-Dev] Gamora: Lessons learned? (fwd)</A></strong>, Niklas Elmqvist <a href="mailto:d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se">d97elm#dtek,chalmers.se</a>, Wed 28 Oct 1998, 14:06 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00544" HREF="msg00544.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Why did it take years?</A></strong>, Cynbe ru Taren <a href="mailto:cynbe#muq,org">cynbe#muq,org</a>, Tue 27 Oct 1998, 07:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00550" HREF="msg00550.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Why did it take years?</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:adam#angel,com">adam#angel,com</a>, Tue 27 Oct 1998, 19:37 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>