1997Q2/
<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD&#45;Dev] Languages -->
<!--X-From-R13: pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz (Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx) -->
<!--X-Date: from stimpy.globecomm.net [207.51.48.4] by in4.ibm.net id 864506351.10798&#45;1 Sat May 24 20:39:11 1997 CUT -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 338f5064.3651983#relay,mnsinc.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: Pine.SOL.3.91.970522212444.14327A&#45;100000@pollux -->
<!--X-Reference: 338c1fce.16025866#relay,mnsinc.com -->
<!--X-Reference: 3385CF00.41C67EA6#iname,com -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
      text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">

  <font size="+4" color="#804040">
    <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
  </font>
      
<br>
[&nbsp;<a href="../">Other Periods</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
&nbsp;]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->

Date:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<a href="msg00740.html">Previous</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="msg00742.html">Next</a>
&nbsp;]
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thread:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<a href="msg00725.html">Previous</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="msg00727.html">Next</a>
&nbsp;]
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Index:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<A HREF="author.html#00739">Author</A>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A HREF="#00739">Date</A>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A HREF="thread.html#00739">Thread</A>
&nbsp;]

<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A> (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:41:17 GMT</LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
On Sat, 24 May 1997 11:38:20 PST8PDT, Shawn Halpenny
&lt;malachai#iname,com&gt; wrote:

&gt;Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
&gt;
&gt;&gt; The problem I see in projects built using proper OOP in C++ is that the
&gt;&gt; same data is validated over... and over... and over... and over...
&gt;&gt; because none of the objects can make any assumptions about the others,
&gt;&gt; so they can't ever take for granted that someone else has validated the
&gt;&gt; data. If they did, they'd break the whole reuse thing.
&gt;
&gt;That reflects poor design in the reuseable components, IMO--or at least
&gt;in the documentation of them.  I'm a proponent of the "validate as close
&gt;to the input source as possible" school of design, and if the interfaces
&gt;are properly documented in those objects close to the source, there
&gt;should be no reason for data to be validated ad infinitum.

I agree entirely with this. It's pretty much what I do. I try to slurp
in the data, sanity check it, and then place it into an area that might
be best described as a 'known good' area. For example, when I implement
a list, I sanity check the input when it's provided to be placed in the
list. If the proper interfaces are used, there is never again a need to
make sure that your pointers aren't NULL and your strings are
terminated. I do provide, for the truly paranoid, a function which
iterates through the list and sanity checks all the contents; but I
never use it.

&gt;none of the features necessarily making C++ worse than
&gt;any other language, nor particularly any better.  I like it, though, and
&gt;will use it because it will let me accomplish what I want with less
&gt;effort than in other languages I've looked at.

I can see several points in the C++ language that make it attractive for
large projects with deadlines... like commercial applications. If the
programmer will not maintain it, it carries several other niceties.
However, all the benefits of C++ seem to be social, rather than
technical; likewise the benefits of OOP. OOP is really great if you have
five teams in different countries working on a project. It's a fantastic
tool for DoD work, as well. But in most computing... I don't see much of
the benefit.

I will admit that heavy Windows programming is almost required to be in
C++, much as the SDK in Windows 3.0 more or less required that you work
in C. But Delphi's got some real potential, although I hate to admit
that any Pascal derivative is anything other than garbage, and Visual
Basic is a wonderful rapid prototyping language. It also makes good blue
glue.

&gt;Also, I think the number of modern C++ compilers that translate code
&gt;into C is between few and none (though it used to be common practice). 

Just as there aren't a lot of C compilers left that translate into
assembler. ;)

Language evolves...

-+[caliban#darklock,com]+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
 I am here to grind your eyes harder into the miasmic bile of life; to 
 show you the truth and the beauty in the whisper of steel on silk and 
 the crimson scent of blood as it rises to meet the caress of a blade. 
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+[<A  HREF="http://www.darklock.com/]+-">http://www.darklock.com/]+-</A>

</PRE>

<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00701" HREF="msg00701.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Ben Greear &lt;greear#pollux,cs.uga.edu&gt;</LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00708" HREF="msg00708.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI></UL></LI>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00725" HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Shawn Halpenny &lt;malachai#iname,com&gt;</LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00740.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00742.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Re: Nutirtion and a Resource Question</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00727.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00739"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00739"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>

<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00680" HREF="msg00680.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 22 May 1997, 01:33 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00701" HREF="msg00701.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#pollux,cs.uga.edu">greear#pollux,cs.uga.edu</a>, Fri 23 May 1997, 08:34 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00708" HREF="msg00708.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Fri 23 May 1997, 11:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00725" HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Sat 24 May 1997, 07:08 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00739" HREF="msg00739.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 03:39 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00727" HREF="msg00727.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sat 24 May 1997, 08:13 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00735" HREF="msg00735.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 03:27 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00770" HREF="msg00770.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 15:17 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00728" HREF="msg00728.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, 
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 24 May 1997, 10:15 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>

</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[&nbsp;<a href="../">Other Periods</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
&nbsp;]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>