<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages --> <!--X-From-R13: pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz (Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx) --> <!--X-Date: from stimpy.globecomm.net [207.51.48.4] by in4.ibm.net id 864506351.10798-1 Sat May 24 20:39:11 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 338f5064.3651983#relay,mnsinc.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.SOL.3.91.970522212444.14327A-100000@pollux --> <!--X-Reference: 338c1fce.16025866#relay,mnsinc.com --> <!--X-Reference: 3385CF00.41C67EA6#iname,com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00740.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00742.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00725.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00727.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00739">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00739">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00739">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A> (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 24 May 1997 20:41:17 GMT</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Sat, 24 May 1997 11:38:20 PST8PDT, Shawn Halpenny <malachai#iname,com> wrote: >Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote: > >> The problem I see in projects built using proper OOP in C++ is that the >> same data is validated over... and over... and over... and over... >> because none of the objects can make any assumptions about the others, >> so they can't ever take for granted that someone else has validated the >> data. If they did, they'd break the whole reuse thing. > >That reflects poor design in the reuseable components, IMO--or at least >in the documentation of them. I'm a proponent of the "validate as close >to the input source as possible" school of design, and if the interfaces >are properly documented in those objects close to the source, there >should be no reason for data to be validated ad infinitum. I agree entirely with this. It's pretty much what I do. I try to slurp in the data, sanity check it, and then place it into an area that might be best described as a 'known good' area. For example, when I implement a list, I sanity check the input when it's provided to be placed in the list. If the proper interfaces are used, there is never again a need to make sure that your pointers aren't NULL and your strings are terminated. I do provide, for the truly paranoid, a function which iterates through the list and sanity checks all the contents; but I never use it. >none of the features necessarily making C++ worse than >any other language, nor particularly any better. I like it, though, and >will use it because it will let me accomplish what I want with less >effort than in other languages I've looked at. I can see several points in the C++ language that make it attractive for large projects with deadlines... like commercial applications. If the programmer will not maintain it, it carries several other niceties. However, all the benefits of C++ seem to be social, rather than technical; likewise the benefits of OOP. OOP is really great if you have five teams in different countries working on a project. It's a fantastic tool for DoD work, as well. But in most computing... I don't see much of the benefit. I will admit that heavy Windows programming is almost required to be in C++, much as the SDK in Windows 3.0 more or less required that you work in C. But Delphi's got some real potential, although I hate to admit that any Pascal derivative is anything other than garbage, and Visual Basic is a wonderful rapid prototyping language. It also makes good blue glue. >Also, I think the number of modern C++ compilers that translate code >into C is between few and none (though it used to be common practice). Just as there aren't a lot of C compilers left that translate into assembler. ;) Language evolves... -+[caliban#darklock,com]+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- I am here to grind your eyes harder into the miasmic bile of life; to show you the truth and the beauty in the whisper of steel on silk and the crimson scent of blood as it rises to meet the caress of a blade. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+[<A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/]+-">http://www.darklock.com/]+-</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00701" HREF="msg00701.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Ben Greear <greear#pollux,cs.uga.edu></LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00708" HREF="msg00708.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI></UL></LI> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00725" HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Shawn Halpenny <malachai#iname,com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00740.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00742.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Nutirtion and a Resource Question</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00727.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00739"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00739"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00680" HREF="msg00680.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 22 May 1997, 01:33 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00701" HREF="msg00701.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Ben Greear <a href="mailto:greear#pollux,cs.uga.edu">greear#pollux,cs.uga.edu</a>, Fri 23 May 1997, 08:34 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00708" HREF="msg00708.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Fri 23 May 1997, 11:54 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00725" HREF="msg00725.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Sat 24 May 1997, 07:08 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00739" HREF="msg00739.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 03:39 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00727" HREF="msg00727.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sat 24 May 1997, 08:13 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00735" HREF="msg00735.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 03:27 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00770" HREF="msg00770.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 15:17 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00728" HREF="msg00728.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 24 May 1997, 10:15 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>