<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts --> <!--X-From-R13: Oqnz Ivttvaf <avtugsnyyNvasvpnq.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by mx01.ny.us.ibm.net id 862026769.75886-1 Sat Apr 26 03:52:49 1997 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199704260354.UAA27449#user2,inficad.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.GSO.3.95q.970425083404.18049A-100000@uhunix2 --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00237.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00239.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00227.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00267.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00238">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00238">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00238">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Adam Wiggins <<A HREF="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:54:25 -0700 (MST)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> This got screwed up the first time around (I think, I didn't see it come back to me and my system was doing funny things at the time I sent it) so reposting just in case. --- [JCL:] > How do you intend to handle indirect effects? > > > l > You are standing in a strange factory. There is a button on > the wall. > Bubba is here. > Bubba pushes the button. > A mechanical arm reaches out from the wall and thwaps you > on the head. That hurt! > > Huh? > Bubba pushes the button. > A mechanical arm reaches out from the wall and thwaps you > on the head. That hurt! > > kill arm > What arm? > Bubba pushes the button. > A mechanical arm reaches out from the wall and thwaps you > on the head. That hurt! > ... > Bubba pushes the button. > A mechanical arm reaches out from the wall and thwaps you > on the head. > You are dead. > > Bubba is not attacking you. The indirect results of Bubba's actions > damage you however. Another example: > > > l > You are in a forest. > Bubba cuts down a tree. > The tree falls over and dams the river. > You drown. Heh, I like your examples. Still, this goes just fine with what I suggested before, which is that there is a 'percieved' cause for something. In a simple, one window environment, this is just things which happen between your prompt. In this case, the action which hurt you was the arm. Since it can't do anything to the arm directly, it looks up one line, and sees Bubba pushing a button. Now...it may just be a terrible coincidence, but this sort of mix up happens in real life all the time, so I see no reason it couldn't happen here. Ie: Bubba types away on his laptop computer. Suddenly, a mechanical arm smacks you in the face! > growl > kill bubba Bubba says, 'No, wait! I didn't ...aggghh!!' In actuality, Bubba was just doing his homework, but how do I know that? This actually happens on muds right now, albiet in a simpler form. I'm standing there trying to paralyze a city guard and someone walks by, seeing me cast the spell. They think I'm trying to kill them so they attack me. By the same token, I'll wait for someone I want to kill to go into a room with a cityguard, walk in and say, "You gonna do him?" they shake their heads no, then I stand there and try to cast paralyze on them, while they sit there thinking I'm doing the cityguard. By the time they realize their mistake, it's too late. (Either that, or they get smart and leave realizing what I might be up to.) > Entirely lose the concept of a "combat state" visa vis special > casing the game environment. Absolutely. > Keep the concept of a "combat state" for the player character > directly to allow easier combat function access. This is a > careful distinction -- internal combat state does not affect the > possibilities and manipulation of the character by the external > game, or in any way alter the functional capabilities of the > character (ie there are no motion restictions, no "You can't do > that! Your're fighting!" restrictions etc. All that has > happened is that his combat packages are now activated.) However...analysis of the situation may decide that certain things are a bad idea... > Allow all combat functions to be accessable at any time, and > in any manner, Translation: Make them normal commands so > that "get cup" is effetively identical in processing to "stab > bubba with knife". Uh, you do it differently now? > Add a "fight" command which sets an internal state on the > player character which concomittantly kicks in the combat > packages. The "fight" command is then analagous to the > decision to aggressively combat as vs sparring or other less > dedicated forms. Yeah, we have all sorts of commands for deciding how aggresive you are, including 'spar', 'fight', 'kill', and so on. Sometimes these get set for you, for instance if you're sparring and they draw blood you may get mad and shift up a level without meaning too. > The combat state should be toggled off once the combat object > destructs, or upon user command. Suggestions welcome for the > "peace" (?) command. Well, we have a lot of little commands to either tone down your aggressiveness or shut it off altogether. Note that this doesn't mean that you won't 'engange' in combat, but rather you'll just circle endlessly. It's pretty difficult to abstain altogether - your natural reaction when someone attacks you is to throw up your arms to protect yourself, regardless of what you may actually 'want'. > quantum and you're just along for the ride to see the messages. I > did't want that. I also wanted the system to handle the old problem Yeah, which is why I generally prefer playing spellcasters, since you actually have to interact. Ie, mob you're fighting gates in three nalfenshees, you want to cast banishment...mob you're fighting paralyzes or silences another groupmember, you want to dispel them...or even the simple thing of, "hmmm, he seems to be resistant to acid, let me try cone of cold...there, that works better" > of: You can carry four full suits of plate mail, strangle three orcs, > cast four fireballs, roundhouse kick two ogres and an elf, and tap > dance "Sweet Mary" all at the same time while hacking that poor hobbit > to bits with your two-handed sword. To a certain extent my server > design made my decision for me (only compleated events/transactions > actually exist) in encouraging going for entire forms as the basic > granularity. My favorite is stopping for a quick snack and changing into your armor during combat. Of course, most give you some sort of 'lag' to make it so that you can't do other things in the meantime, but it still seems silly to me that this doesn't have any impact on your combat prowess. If I'm wrigling into my jeans, chances are my ability to defend is rather low. > Absolutely. I don't reward anything for combat except for possible > skill improvement for the various actions used and seen in the combat. > Then again my system is level-less, class-less etc etc etc yada yada, > so keeping advancement via combat (or even any dregs of the > "experience points" idiocy) would be counter-productive. Honestly, is _anyone_ on this group still using classes, levels, or experience? I'm to the point where I can't even bring myself to play non skill-based muds, although classes don't bother me all that much. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00267" HREF="msg00267.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00227" HREF="msg00227.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Nathan Yospe <yospe#hawaii,edu></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00237.html">Sendmail changes</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00239.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Introduction</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00227.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00267.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00238"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00238"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00213" HREF="msg00213.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Fri 25 Apr 1997, 12:43 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00230" HREF="msg00230.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 26 Apr 1997, 03:18 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00215" HREF="msg00215.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:casey#NU,cs.fsu.edu">casey#NU,cs.fsu.edu</a>, Fri 25 Apr 1997, 13:00 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00227" HREF="msg00227.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sat 26 Apr 1997, 02:37 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00238" HREF="msg00238.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Sat 26 Apr 1997, 10:52 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00267" HREF="msg00267.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Reposts</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Tue 29 Apr 1997, 05:48 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00218" HREF="msg00218.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#IX,NETCOM.COM">jlsysinc#IX,NETCOM.COM</a>, Fri 25 Apr 1997, 13:09 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00231" HREF="msg00231.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 26 Apr 1997, 04:01 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00242" HREF="msg00242.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Issues from the digests and Wout's list</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Sat 26 Apr 1997, 12:01 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>