<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Role-playing [was Re: several messages] --> <!--X-From-R13: Oqnz Ivttvaf <avtugsnyyNvasvpnq.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by mx5.ibm.net id 863375663.56284-1 Sun May 11 18:34:23 1997 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199705111843.LAA07468#user2,inficad.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.LNX.3.96.970511111810.147E-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00373.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00375.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00370.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00381.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00374">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00374">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00374">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Adam Wiggins <<A HREF="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 11 May 1997 11:43:23 -0700 (MST)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> > Here's a good place to start an RP thread, with an age-old crisis for > those running online RPGs (which focus on Roleplaying a character rather > than anything else). > How do you spur more RP? > There are a number of 'tactics' employed by people to do this, some work > better than others, for various reasons. This is an interesting question, and I think one that any potential imp should ask themselves before embarking on creating a role-playing game. My personal belief is that role-playing is something that should occur naturally, just a part of playing the game, rather than being a seperate element that is upheld strictly on the part of a player sitting behind a keyboard. That is, I see people discussing 'enforcement' of role-playing all the time. Huh? The very idea is ludicrous. More commonly I see people trying to 'encourage' role-playing by creating external rewards, ie wizinvis immortals giving out RP "points" (gag). These people are missing the point. It's a game, people do it for fun, so they are going to do whatever is fun and natural in a given game. If RP is not a fundamental part of the way the game is played, it's never going to be given its due, regardless of what the admin or a few zealous players may try. This is the reason people RP in pen-and-paper sessions - because that's the point of the game. If you didn't RP, it would be nothing more than a bunch of people sitting around rolling dice for no particular reason. (The numbers/combat mechanics in most pen and paper RPGs just aren't interesting enough to make it an end in itself.) I think MUSHes fall into this same category - the only people they attract are those interested in some serious role-playing. There's just no other reason to play them. Dikus have their powerbuilding, LPs their puzzlesolving and guilds, YaMUD its artifact-creation, and so forth - these have other reasons to play besides RP, so players may or may not RP depending on how the game is set up. In addition, people like to categorize people in hard and fast molds. The two most common are the role-player and the power-mudder. When admin/imp type people get talking about players on the r.g.mud groups, they like to talk about ways you can attract the first sort of player and how to get rid of the second one. The truth of the matter is that the lines are far more blurred. People simply adapt to the environment they are in. One of my old roommates was a power-mudder extrodinaire (he introduced me to muds, in fact) - he'd log onto a mud and 'beat' it without a matter of days by playing the numbers. Yet this same person can role-play as well as anyone I've ever seen when we'd play GURPs or Runequest, and I sat there and watched him spend two weeks writing up a character history for a MUSH he wanted to play. I'm the same way - I role-play when it's fun, and power-play when that's fun. Given that, then, you only need to decide a) what's the focus of my game, and b) how am I going to achieve that? Chris L., for example, seems to have decided that he's interested in a strategic game which flexes your intellect more than your creativety. For him to expect his players to role-play is probably pretty silly. Nathan, on the other hand, is creating a game which reads like a piece of sci-fi fiction which allows the players to direct the action as they see fit. It would probably be nearly impossible to play his game and *not* role-play. The project I'm working on is probably somewhere inbetween these; I have my roots in diku and computer RPGs where the point of the game is character development (mainly aquiring and practising skills and spells), but we're also working to make the game have a lot of mood and flavor. We've strived to put in a lot of things that make the game seem different depending upon what character you're playing. I think I've already mentioned the example of: [big dumb ogre types 'look':] You see here a big pile of coins. [human types 'look':] You see here several hundred coins. [Rain Man types 'look':] You see here 327 coins, one of which has a small scratch on its underside. More pratical stuff for player involvement involves simple size issues (those jhaa'rdk are *constantly* hitting their heads when walking through human cities), intelligence (it's frequently easier for a minotaur to rip a door of its hinges than try to figure out how to work the knob), racial balance (your dwarf walks into the dwarven keen and is warmly greeted, his wounds tended to, and given a hot meal...whereas he walks into the elven city and everyone gives him the cold shoulder), character creation which gets the player involved (like the lifepath stuff we dicussed last month), religions which are actually different instead of just a different set of prayers for clerics to use, and so on. Part of the trick, I think, is just making sure that you and anyone else who is working with you has a clear vision of the driving purpose(s) behind the game (that is, what makes this game fun?), and then makes sure that every element somehow contributes to that. If you're going the mood/role- playing route, then you should make sure that all the numbers are hidden enough that the players don't have to worry about it; they can just play their characters as they should, and things will work as expected; rather than, "Gee, I'm suddenly hitting a lot harder. Oh, it must be because that last point of strength put me over a breakpoint of damroll." If you're doing a power-playing/strategic game, then the mechanics should be clear enough that the players can get clear data about the situation and then apply strategic knowledge. (This doesn't necessarily translate to showing numbers, although frequently numbers are just easier all around.) I've seen far too many power-playing muds try to 'go role-play' by hiding a few numbers. All this does is frustrate the players, since they can't play the game effectively anymore. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="00381" HREF="msg00381.html">Re: Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00370" HREF="msg00370.html">Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00373.html">Introduction</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00375.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: generic objects, behaviors</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00370.html">Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00381.html">Re: Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00374"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00374"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Introduction</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00438" HREF="msg00438.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Introduction</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 14 May 1997, 01:44 GMT </LI> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00394" HREF="msg00394.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Introduction</A></strong>, Miroslav Silovic <a href="mailto:silovic#srce,hr">silovic#srce,hr</a>, Mon 12 May 1997, 16:29 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00369" HREF="msg00369.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: several messages</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Sun 11 May 1997, 12:59 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00370" HREF="msg00370.html">Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sun 11 May 1997, 17:20 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00374" HREF="msg00374.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Mon 12 May 1997, 01:34 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00381" HREF="msg00381.html">Re: Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Mon 12 May 1997, 03:34 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00400" HREF="msg00400.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Mon 12 May 1997, 21:06 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00470" HREF="msg00470.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 14 May 1997, 23:54 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00480" HREF="msg00480.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Role-playing [was Re: several messages]</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Thu 15 May 1997, 23:06 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>