<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues --> <!--X-From-R13: "Xba O. Znzoreg" <wyflfvapNvk.argpbz.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from scipio.globecomm.net [207.51.48.12] by in11.ibm.net id 867474431.44512-1 Sat Jun 28 05:07:11 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199706280507.AAA23724@dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01567.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01569.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01580.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01582.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01568">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01568">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01568">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: "Jon A. Lambert" <<A HREF="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 01:06:52 -0400</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> > From: Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com> > On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:46:32 PST8PDT, "Jon A. Lambert" > > It sounds to me like you're actually using levels in combination with > some other elements, rather than JUST levels as I was discussing. > Perhaps I should have called it: > > Pure levels in the absence of any and all other information > pertaining to the skills and abilities of the character > There are some here who do away with levels entirely. Nathan for instance, provides dynamic skill adjustment as actions are performed or through time or lack of performance. (Hope I am close on this Nathan.) Very realistic IMO. I rather like it as it's been explained; as well as the other skill-based advancement systems. --I have some game considerations which I've decided preclude the use of this and will attempt to elaborate on them. I prefer to store the result of all actions in the form of a point tally (XPs). At a point-in-time the character will receive enough of these points to advance (a level). At this point a character may "develop" the character (resource management, as someone pointed out) Sounds pretty much standard so far. However, it will take an extremely long time to advance a level in my game should one pursue the game only in this way. There is a severe declining-balance award for repetition of actions. I have an also have an array of standardized but subjective rewards for role-play. Guidelines for the Game Masters. These are often highly subjective that I find it quite difficult to automate the task of awarding all of these points via the server. Perhaps 40-50% of a characters advancement points will be assigned in this way, maybe more. I can automate some of these awards, questing and puzzle solving, but these things still play a small part in my game. For this to occur, my game requires the services of GMs (game masters), much like any RPG. I don't consider this to be a problem area, although I am well aware of the arguments against this (trust, favoritism, abuse, etc.) When one advances a level, a character does not automatically receive any gains from the game. They receive a number of development points which may be spent in a number of ways. This is not restricted to skills. The argument against this is that characters may choose to develop skills that they have not actually exercised within the game. This is a very valid point. I have three arguments against this based on game issues. 1) In game terms, the player's character is always present in world. The player is usually not. I make the assumption that character is doing something during this time to advance these skills that they wish to develop. Typically this time is greater compared with the time the player is in control. (Although, I have heard cases of mud addiction where this wouldn't hold) 2) My interest is in creating an RPG environment. It is often the case that much time is spent in interaction and not action. I don't wish to discourage this "idle" time in any way. If anything it is rewarded with the RP awards I mentioned above. 3) Providing for total player controlled development. In an RPG system, a player usually wants the ability to manage resources and guide the physical and mental development of their character. While having the server automate this based on live action is realistic, I think it might well run counter to player goals in an RPG. JL </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01582" HREF="msg01582.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> caliban#darklock,com (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01567.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Levels and XP</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01569.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01580.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Flexible, Modular Server Design</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01582.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01568"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01568"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Another Approach (was: Integrating PK)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01581" HREF="msg01581.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Another Approach (was: Integrating PK)</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 13:20 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01572" HREF="msg01572.html">[MUD-Dev] Flexible, Modular Server Design</A></strong>, Brandon Cline <a href="mailto:brandon#merlin,sedona.net">brandon#merlin,sedona.net</a>, Sat 28 Jun 1997, 16:11 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01577" HREF="msg01577.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Flexible, Modular Server Design</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 04:16 GMT </LI> </UL> <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="01580" HREF="msg01580.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Flexible, Modular Server Design</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 13:03 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01568" HREF="msg01568.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sat 28 Jun 1997, 12:07 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01582" HREF="msg01582.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 17:42 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01583" HREF="msg01583.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sun 29 Jun 1997, 18:41 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01603" HREF="msg01603.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></strong>, Martin Keegan <a href="mailto:martin#cam,sri.com">martin#cam,sri.com</a>, Tue 01 Jul 1997, 02:22 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01605" HREF="msg01605.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Level abstractions - Realism vs Game Issues</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Tue 01 Jul 1997, 02:45 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>