<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD --> <!--X-From-R13: pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz (Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx) --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by in5.ibm.net id 867021106.43996-1 Sun Jun 22 23:11:46 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 33aeab63.5245420#relay,mnsinc.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.GSO.3.95q.970621211819.4326B-100000@uhunix2 --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01435.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01437.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01416.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01562.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01436">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01436">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01436">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A> (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 22 Jun 1997 23:13:29 GMT</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Sun, 22 Jun 1997 11:07:43 PST8PDT, Nathan Yospe <yospe#hawaii,edu> wrote: >On Sat, 21 Jun 1997, Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote: > >:GUI interfaces are not generally a good idea for a text-based MUD. >:There's too much text entry required, and the mouse/keyboard switching >:is ultimately a pain and a slowdown. If a particular command in the MUD >:building interface is easily automated by a button, it is also either >:easy to type or should be simplified in the MUD design. > >I do use an arrow-key interface.... similar to Lynx or Gopher interfaces. >For example: [snip] This sort of interface is what I would call more a 'visual' interface rather than a GUI. When I think of a GUI, I tend to think of something mouse driven... if it's driven from the keyboard, I tend to find it much more usable. However, it's difficult to do this sort of interface these days, with variable-width fonts and whatnot... I think I'd be more comfortable with a number driven interface, myself, but then that's more because my personal choice of client doesn't really support the various terminal emulations that I once took for granted on character terminals. I do have other clients that handle them well, so if all else failed I'd just use one of those. It's also worth noting that these sorts of visual interfaces only really work with a character-buffered telnet, and a line-buffered client makes them pretty much useless. >:There *are* places where a GUI can be useful, for example a series of >:checkboxes that graphically illustrate the locations of exits -- these >:checkboxes could be turned on or off, and then a single button could >:make and destroy exits as appropriate through something like this: [snip] >Little hard without rooms or directional exits, no? Few of us, IIRC, have >either of those things. Yes, there are a lot of concepts that this just isn't applicable to; but it *is* an area where a GUI could be useful, and some sort of example could be constructed for nearly any design scheme. >:Likewise, there's an associated difficulty in people who want >:to do EVERYTHING in one command line; resulting in commands like > >: setexits s=A long tunnel/5321|This long tunnel leads off >: into the darkness.| n=A dimly lit room/4231|The dimly >: lit room appears to be uninhabited.| I'd just like to clarify that this command is something I consider a Bad Idea to put into an interface. It tries to do too much at once, and ends up being cryptic and difficult to work with. >Personally, I would have found all of your examples, as a builder, >intolerable. And it doesn't leave a lot of room for programmability. Well, I wasn't necessarily saying 'these commands belong in every MUD', as much as I was saying 'here is an example'. While it's certainly true that there's more to an exit than which direction it leads, my command line above was intended to demonstrate that trying to do everything in one shot tends to be a really bad idea and confuse the issue greatly. There would certainly be additional features and commands that deal with exits, just as there would be a different set of commands for something that didn't really have the current structure of rooms, objects, and exits. I'm actually a little mystified about how you can find a simple atomic command to make an exit and another command to make several exits an intolerable interface; not to mention the 'lack of programmability' doesn't quite seem to follow. I guess if that was the only thing you could ever do with an exit, it *would* suck. >Not saying a GUI would come out better, though I have been thinking of a GUI >interface for building in my client... just, with an IDE built in. I think I may be using the term GUI where you use IDE, actually. IDE is probably a better term for it, as 'visual' interface has certain connotations that aren't appropriate, while GUI does seem to fit in both the way I intended it and the way I think you intended it... it's probably more correct the way you're using the terms, if I'm understanding your usage correctly. -+[caliban#darklock,com]+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- I am here to grind your eyes harder into the miasmic bile of life; to show you the truth and the beauty in the whisper of steel on silk and the crimson scent of blood as it rises to meet the caress of a blade. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+[<A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/]+-">http://www.darklock.com/]+-</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01416" HREF="msg01416.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Nathan Yospe <yospe#hawaii,edu></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01435.html">Neighborhoods (was room-based v coord-based)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01437.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01416.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01562.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01436"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01436"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01371" HREF="msg01371.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Fri 20 Jun 1997, 12:55 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01403" HREF="msg01403.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 21 Jun 1997, 16:41 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01412" HREF="msg01412.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Sun 22 Jun 1997, 04:53 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01416" HREF="msg01416.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sun 22 Jun 1997, 14:37 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01436" HREF="msg01436.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 23 Jun 1997, 06:11 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01562" HREF="msg01562.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 28 Jun 1997, 03:56 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01566" HREF="msg01566.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Sat 28 Jun 1997, 11:28 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01419" HREF="msg01419.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Sun 22 Jun 1997, 17:32 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01415" HREF="msg01415.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP=MUSH/PG=MUD</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Sun 22 Jun 1997, 13:49 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>