<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE... --> <!--X-From-R13: pbqreNvoz.arg --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by in2.ibm.net id 864596546.148962-1 Sun May 25 21:42:26 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199705252142.VAA241568#out1,ibm.net --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 9705251814.822s@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:coder#ibm,net"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00794.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00796.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00781.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00777.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00795">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00795">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00795">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 25 May 97 13:51:22 -0700</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On 25/05/97 at 12:20 PM, cg#ami-cg,graysage.edmonton.ab.ca (Chris Gray) said: >[Chris L:] >:Its been too long since we've had any decent size posts. This list >:used to be rife with 30K signal filled chunks. >Actually, I prefer the smaller posts - easier on the meatware! Yeah, but they tend to fall into being just idle comments without any real in-depth discussion or debate over the validity of a given point. >[Much discussion of death, partial death, etc.] >You seem to have a strong desire for "something different". Yup. >I can >understand that, but you want to make sure that when everything is >done, the game is still playable. I confidently predict that the majority of current MUD players, especially the DIKU-ites will not consider it playable by any scale they are currently familiar with. >However, it strikes me that something >that few players will put up with for long is a lot of frustration. Yup, this is why I'm not making the multiple bodies etc etc etc yada yada a fundamental part of the initial approach to the game. I intend for the game to be initially playable from a single-character hack'n'slash monty haul PoV. All the rest comes in as the players find out that that bumph is but surface dressing on the real meat and feature set of the game. Going back to ShadowHouse and the recent coverage for Fortress Fract and the Blue Grass Path -- none of the new players even thought about attempting it. For one it was to tough to get to, asnd too confusing when they got there. Only the fairly experienced players knew enough about the game to realise what they offered, and that Fract and the BGP were the high-risk high-challenge fast lane if they could stomache it. I'm not real sure how as yet, but I'm hoping to arrange for the same sort of split again, where the munchkins can wander about slaughtering fido's (somebody kill be if I ever put a fido in a game in anything by spoof) while acting as a breeding pool for real players who start digging into the more interesting aspects. Maybe the ratio will be as high as 1 in 100 players ever goes past the DIKU-dumb approach. I hope it will be that high. >On the other end of the scale, killing off a character that >has taken a lot of effort to develop, can also be quite frustrating. I am very tempted to seperate death into two classes: 1) The game kills you. Do something stupid like step the wrong way into quick sand and drown. 2) You kill yourself. Do somthing stupid like pick on the wrong player/mobile and get yourself slaughtered. #1 I consider entirely excusable, especially in the case of exploration. If they are in the condition where they are only running one body, I'm thinking about doing nothing but resetting the character back to initial condition. This doesn't mean a whole lot except that they lose everything they gained, their body is reincarnated with all name assignmnets etc left intact, and they are dropped back in the world. #2 is stupid and inexcusable. Delete the character. Point has often been raised here with newbie killers. The difference is that with the lack of a global naming system its *really* tough to find another character unless you have a pre-assigned name for their body. As such its easy to determine if someone has logged in, but very tough to impossible to determine where they are in the game (or even what body they are controlling), and whether or not they are newbies. Character bodies are entirely anonymous. >In typical computer games, backups are allowed, which lets the player >try dangerous things, but without the thread of losing everything. >The fact that so many games do that (starting with the Scott Adams >adventures, and continuing with Infocom) must say something about >what is perceived as making a playable game. Agreed. I've been thinking about this. Currently I've been hoping to use this very point as a way of encouraging players into the multi-body realms. Get a second body, park is somewhere safe and just ignore it to have semi-guaranteed immortality. >:I've attempted to solve this in a round-about way, mostly via >:side-effects of other design decisions. >And you have come up with some very interesting things by doing so. I >like the concepts of body stealing, body-less godhood, watching >through another character's body's eyes, the spirit world, etc. Excellant! >It >would take me a while to get comfortable with using the system, >however. Yeah -- I'm fairly sure there is no way about this. Its a larning curve no matter what. >It seems to me that your system is aimed at the advanced MUD >player. Is that a conscious choice? Its more implicit than definitional. I like highly detailed games, and so that's what I try and create. (Actually I absolutely adore incredibly simple games where the complexity is outside of the rules (eg Sokoban, Go, Yote, Omnigon). I'm not fond of the lego-class stuff, and so tend to ignore that. I'm particularly trying to head for "advanced players" per se >I'm going to leave comments about the actual details to the advanced >MUD players on the list - I don't feel qualified to comment further. Hey, you play MUDs occassionally -- you're more than qualified. >Re: Silverlock. I'm pretty sure I've got it around here somewhere, >but a quick search didn't find it. It must be buried in a box of >paperbacks. I must admit to not remembering anything about the story, >but just remember the picture on the cover. Vague ticklings about the >story are there, but no details. (Just shows I read too much!) It is probably the most allusion dense piece of fiction I have ever read. I have a pretty decent literary bakground, and I *know* I only caught about 20% of the allusions and references in there. OTOH had it was an incredibly riotous and hilarious read (remember the Friar who watched his fellow monks be staughtered with indifference, but only got upset when the barbarians spilled the wine on the grain and proceeded to single-handledly slaughter them wholesale for such sacriledge?) -- J C Lawrence Internet: claw#null,net ----------(*) Internet: coder#ibm,net ...Honourary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00794.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00796.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Languages</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00777.html">Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00795"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00795"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00790" HREF="msg00790.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Starting characters (was: Alright...)</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 02:22 GMT <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="00801" HREF="msg00801.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Starting characters (was: Alright...)</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 07:25 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00789" HREF="msg00789.html">Internal Mud Languages</A></strong>, Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 02:18 GMT <LI><strong><A NAME="00781" HREF="msg00781.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 00:10 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00795" HREF="msg00795.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 04:42 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00777" HREF="msg00777.html">Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Michael Hohensee <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Sun 25 May 1997, 20:28 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00794" HREF="msg00794.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 26 May 1997, 03:50 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00855" HREF="msg00855.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, RHS Linux User <a href="mailto:michael#sparta,mainstream.net">michael#sparta,mainstream.net</a>, Wed 28 May 1997, 01:29 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00892" HREF="msg00892.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Rooms, 3D arrays, etc.</A></strong>, Shawn Halpenny <a href="mailto:malachai#iname,com">malachai#iname,com</a>, Wed 28 May 1997, 20:57 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>