<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK --> <!--X-From-R13: Oqnz Ivttvaf <avtugsnyyNhfre2.vasvpnq.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by in1.ibm.net id 867128480.40586-1 Tue Jun 24 05:01:20 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199706231500.IAA28927#user2,inficad.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.LNX.3.96.970623180753.149H-100000#mpc,dyn.ml.org --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01468.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01470.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01462.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01476.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01469">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01469">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01469">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Adam Wiggins <<A HREF="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 08:00:01 -0700 (MST)</LI> <LI><em>Reply-To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</A></LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> [Matt C:] > [Marian:] > > for players to treat death from the hands of another player similar to > > death by an monster. I think the answer to that is yes too. For many of > > the players. Others, like me, won't feel it is the same. As long as you > > provide meaningfull reasons to fights (and thereby ways to avoid those > > fights!) it is not so bad. What particularly rankles is being attacked > > for no apparent (or valid) reason. > > Yeah. The inherent problem here of course, is many players attack NPCs for > no reason at all, and the same to other players. I suppose what is worth > note is that you are to be equally reprimanded for killing an NPC or > player in a town, and not at all outside (unless they or their guild come > after retribution). Guild behaviour will be encouraged (ie: Fred killed > John, are we gonna let him get away with that?!). Yes. Well, of course, they aren't attacking characters (PC or NPC) for "no reason", they are attacking them in order to get money, experience, and equipment. Take away this motivation, make combat extremely chancey, and suddenly there's much less reason to attack other people. On top of this, make the characters be more interested in the world around them by giving them actual political and/or social tie-ins. One of the main things that bothers me is that racial hometowns are usually so simple. Normally it's things like the guards defending you if you're the same race and that's about it. Make it so that the hometown for the player's race really *is* a home to them - someplace they can always go for food, healing, repairs, safety among their fellows, etc etc. If you attack members of your own race, you're branded an outcast and tossed out into the big bad world with no more help from that quarter. Moreover, this gives the players actual motivation to defend NPCs from PCs, instead of the dwarven PC rooting on the troll PC as he takes out the dwarven elite guards. Other things along this lines: allow players to own shops and taverns in town. If someone knocks over the shop, then they have an actual player to reckon with. If someone aids the shopkeeper when someone else is attacking it, have the shopkeeper remember their name and relay it to the PC when she returns. Now there's a real motivation to help out NPCs who *aren't* even of your same race or have any special relation to you - sort of proving yourself a hero, as it were. Ditto goes for guildmasters or government officials. > > Most towns would have a law to forbid carrying weapons openly. Unless you > > are a guard or a -very- noble visitor or inhabitant. The amount of damage > > you can do with a simple eating knife is far less. And those fights are > > easier to break up for the guards. > > Absolutely. Weapons are to be sheathed (possibly simply represented by > unwielded), or put away upon entry, and being caught with a weapon openly The trick is to be careful with this. I've seen this implemented plenty of times but never well. The main problem is that you often end up doing this: > kill gatekeeper You start thumping on the gatekeeper with your fists. > draw sword You draw your sword. You slash the gatekeeper, who dies from the blow. > open gate But your hands are full with your sword! > growl You growl. > sheathe sword You sheathe your sword. > open gate You open the gate. Or my personal favorite, when things get automated... > eat dinner You begin eating your dinner. > Imadork has arrived from outside. Imadork attacks you! You draw your sword to defend yourself! The cityguard standing nearby says, 'Hey, no drawn weapons allowed in town!' The cityguard slashes you in half, and you die from the blow. Yes, I have seen this exact scenario before. > in view is a punishable offence. Dodgy characters (if you've been in > trouble here before) may well be asked to surrender weapons at the gates. We have a number of different towns, which range from completely lawless outposts where you can do what you please to highly fortified cities which allow no weapons whatsoever within their gates. The later is more hassle, but if you want to go about your business without fearing that some ruffian is going to cut you down in hopes that you have a few coppers in your purse, it's kind of nice. Other ideas: only citizens can carry weapons, and then only those that are registered. Restrictions on types of weapons (for instance, no blades) or areas of the town where you can go with them. And so forth - there's no reason at all that it should be the same in every town. > In responding to an armed conflict, guards will not worry about applying > lethal force (read: Freeze! This crossbow is *loaded*.. 1.. 2.. 3.. > *twang*thunk*gurgle*). In an unarmed conflict, they'll be friendlier, and > join in to break it up. Or relatively unarmed, anyway. Yeah. I've always wanted to be able to get into fistfights in bars or other less intense combat situations, but general there is no particular distinction between lethal and non-lethal combat. > Your response is definitely valid, and most welcome - the fact that you > don't play "PK ok" games means you have a reason for it. I have no > objection with (and would like to think its possible to have) pk being > allowed (not necessarily encouraged), and treated the same as NPC killng. Yes. As I've stated before, we treat NPCs and PCs as 100% identical in all respects. The only difference is that the mobiles get their commands from a script (or an immort who has possessed their body) and PCs get theirs from a descriptor. This solves a whole slew of problems straight off the bat. </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01476" HREF="msg01476.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01462" HREF="msg01462.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Matt Chatterley <root#mpc,dyn.ml.org></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01468.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01470.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Alright... IF your gonan do DESIESE...</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01462.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01476.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01469"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01469"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Supporting RP+PG</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01439" HREF="msg01439.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Supporting RP+PG</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 23 Jun 1997, 07:16 GMT </LI> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01409" HREF="msg01409.html">Integrating PK</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sun 22 Jun 1997, 03:49 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01457" HREF="msg01457.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Mon 23 Jun 1997, 22:56 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01462" HREF="msg01462.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Tue 24 Jun 1997, 00:21 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01469" HREF="msg01469.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Tue 24 Jun 1997, 12:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01476" HREF="msg01476.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 25 Jun 1997, 01:23 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01489" HREF="msg01489.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 25 Jun 1997, 15:11 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01492" HREF="msg01492.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:root#mpc,dyn.ml.org">root#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Wed 25 Jun 1997, 22:55 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01499" HREF="msg01499.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Integrating PK</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 26 Jun 1997, 02:31 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>