1997Q2/
<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 -->
<!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD&#45;Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing -->
<!--X-From-R13: pynjerapNphc.uc.pbz -->
<!--X-Date: from ren.globecomm.net [207.51.48.3] by mx01.ca.us.ibm.net id 863631288.63743&#45;1 Wed May 14 17:34:48 1997 -->
<!--X-Message-Id: 199705141732.KAA24468#xsvr3,cup.hp.com -->
<!--X-Content-Type: text/plain -->
<!--X-Reference: Marcel&#45;1.09&#45;0511103447&#45;0b0Ky&#38;5#Gryphon,iaehv.nl -->
<!--X-Head-End-->
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<html>
<head>
<title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</title>
<!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" -->
<link rev="made" href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">
</head>
<body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff"
      text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000">

  <font size="+4" color="#804040">
    <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong>
  </font>
      
<br>
[&nbsp;<a href="../">Other Periods</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
&nbsp;]
<br clear=all><hr>
<!--X-Body-Begin-->
<!--X-User-Header-->
<!--X-User-Header-End-->
<!--X-TopPNI-->

Date:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<a href="msg00472.html">Previous</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="msg00474.html">Next</a>
&nbsp;]
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Thread:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<a href="msg00371.html">Previous</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="msg00489.html">Next</a>
&nbsp;]
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Index:&nbsp;
[&nbsp;<A HREF="author.html#00473">Author</A>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A HREF="#00473">Date</A>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<A HREF="thread.html#00473">Thread</A>
&nbsp;]

<!--X-TopPNI-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-->
<!--X-Subject-Header-Begin-->
<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</H1>
<HR>
<!--X-Subject-Header-End-->
<!--X-Head-of-Message-->
<UL>
<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 13 May 97 10:21:24 -0700</LI>
<LI><em>Reply-to</em>: <A HREF="mailto:claw#null,net">claw#null,net</A></LI>
</UL>
<!--X-Head-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin-->
<HR>
<!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End-->
<!--X-Body-of-Message-->
<PRE>
In &lt;Marcel-1.09-0511103447-0b0Ky&amp;5#Gryphon,iaehv.nl&gt;, on 05/11/97 
   at 08:58 AM, Marian Griffith &lt;gryphon#iaehv,nl&gt; said:

&gt;On Fri 09 May, clawrenc#cup,hp.com wrote:

&gt;&gt; True.  I'm attempting to resolve this from several angles, including
&gt;&gt; moving to a real coordinate space system, giving objects dimensions,
&gt;&gt; doing collision detection for things like trying to fit a dragon thru
&gt;&gt; a mousehole or a boulder into a purse. etc.  I suspect to really
&gt;&gt; resolve the job I'll have to move to a 3D graphical system (I'm
&gt;&gt; already leaning that way), but I'd like and try and resolve the
&gt;&gt; virtual aspects first (which text represents perfectly),  

&gt;I've written about an idea to improve on this deficiency of current
&gt;games on my design page in the faint hope somebody knowledgable would
&gt;stumble on it and be able to comment more intelligently. Preferably
&gt;somebody who could tell if the idea was feasible or not (and how it
&gt;could be improved on without adding overly much complexities).
&gt;The basic idea is to describe everything as 'boxes' with a given
&gt;size. There should be two types: solid boxes and virtual boxes. The
&gt;first type represents all objects in the game, the second all places
&gt;that can be distinguished from other places (not rooms but also
&gt;things like e.g. a forest). Boxes can be placed inside each other,
&gt;and at a certain, position relative to each other. It also allows
&gt;players (who are re-presented by such boxes too) to scramble over the 
&gt;roofs of buildings or fly at second floor height through a street.

The problem here is that a lot of objects have difficult being
represented as boxes (I presume you are refering to rectangular
forms).  Its like trying to build a world out of LEGO with the
restriction that objects can't ne L-shaped, U-shaped, or other more
complex forms.

&gt;Personally I belief this can be achieved without need for graphical
&gt;games...

Agreed.  There are some aspects however that graphics resolve (or at
least remove).  A simple example is the question of anonymous groups
(a bunch of ballons, a group of orcs, etc), when the members of that
group are really distinct individually guided objects which just
happen to be physically proximate and to share a common appearance at
some level of detail.

&gt;...Perhaps in time
&gt;things will change but I tend to agree with those who say that it is
&gt;easier to create an atmosphere for a game with words.

Absolutely.

&gt;&gt; As a start on such, given a coordinate space say, (and no, the user
&gt;&gt; won't ever see X,Y,Z coordinates) the question is how to parse and
&gt;&gt; handle prepositions.  I know the LIMA MUDLib can do it -- anybody here
&gt;&gt; familiar with it, or want to dig into it?

&gt;Why not use: go to &lt;something&gt; and have your character move at a
&gt;predefined speed in the general direction of wherever something is
&gt;(provided it can be 'seen' from the current location. Things like
&gt;'above', 'below' and all others are absolute to the world. 

Even those aren't absolute.  Stick a magnet on the underside of a
space ship, and then slip a piece of paper under the magnet.  The
paper is under the magnet and physically located above it.

&gt;And
&gt;'behind' is relative to the current orientation of the character. 

You are standing beside a car, looking thru a side window.  To your
left Bubba stands behind the car.  To your right, Boffo stands before
the car.  Bernie stands on the other side of the car.  Bernie can
_also_ be described as standing behind the car, tho he is in a
different position than Bubba who can also be described as "behind"
the car.

-- 
J C Lawrence                           Internet: claw#null,net
(Contractor)                           Internet: coder#ibm,net
---------------(*)               Internet: clawrenc#cup,hp.com
...Honorary Member Clan McFUD -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith...


</PRE>

<!--X-Body-of-Message-End-->
<!--X-MsgBody-End-->
<!--X-Follow-Ups-->
<HR>
<!--X-Follow-Ups-End-->
<!--X-References-->
<UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>:
<UL>
<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00371" HREF="msg00371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Marian Griffith &lt;gryphon#iaehv,nl&gt;</LI></UL></LI>
</UL></LI></UL>
<!--X-References-End-->
<!--X-BotPNI-->
<UL>
<LI>Prev by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00472.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Administrative notes</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by Date:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00474.html">Re: Role-playing</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Prev by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Next by thread:
<STRONG><A HREF="msg00489.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></STRONG>
</LI>
<LI>Index(es):
<UL>
<LI><A HREF="index.html#00473"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI>
<LI><A HREF="thread.html#00473"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>

<!--X-BotPNI-End-->
<!--X-User-Footer-->
<!--X-User-Footer-End-->
<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev]  Prepositions and parsing</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00333" HREF="msg00333.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Thu 08 May 1997, 04:45 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00337" HREF="msg00337.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Fri 09 May 1997, 05:30 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00351" HREF="msg00351.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 10 May 1997, 02:34 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00371" HREF="msg00371.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sun 11 May 1997, 17:24 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00473" HREF="msg00473.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 15 May 1997, 00:34 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00489" HREF="msg00489.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Fri 16 May 1997, 05:41 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00509" HREF="msg00509.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 17 May 1997, 00:59 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00328" HREF="msg00328.html">Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
S001GMU <a href="mailto:S001GMU#nova,wright.edu">S001GMU#nova,wright.edu</a>, Wed 07 May 1997, 20:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00345" HREF="msg00345.html">Re: [MUD-Dev]  Re: Prepositions and parsing</A></strong>, 
clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 10 May 1997, 00:14 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
</UL></BLOCKQUOTE>

</ul>
<hr>
<center>
[&nbsp;<a href="../">Other Periods</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a>
&nbsp;|&nbsp;<a href="/search.php3">Search</a>
&nbsp;]
</center>
<hr>
</body>
</html>