<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro --> <!--X-From-R13: "Re. Qng" <pngNrqra.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from babe.globecomm.net [207.51.48.8] by in10.ibm.net id 866038377.43830-1 Wed Jun 11 14:12:57 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 199706111412.JAA22412#matrix,eden.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 9706101527.84sk@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:cat#eden,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01289.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01291.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01289.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01294.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01290">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01290">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01290">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: "Dr. Cat" <<A HREF="mailto:cat#eden,com">cat#eden,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:12:55 -0500 (CDT)</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> > There is also the other side of the coin to consider. If you learn > something from this list (or from a newsgroup, for that matter), whether > it is a technique or just the glimmer of an idea, it would be proper to > not use it in your commercial products without the permission of the > originator of the idea. This kind of attitude is why movie studios (and these days, most computer game companies) absolutely will not look at unsolicited scripts, and will generally return the mail unopened if they realize that's what is in it. If someone suggests an idea you'd already thought of, they're not likely to believe that and will assume you "stole" it from them. This sometimes leads to lawsuits, which are the last thing they want to have to deal with. It's worse than just that, though. I'm still fairly young, barring any sudden accidents (or an excessively lazy early retirement) I probably have decades of productive work ahead of me. I don't think that I've thought up all the ideas that I'm going to, I expect I have many more ahead of me. If I foolishly spend part of those years talking and listening to other people, and hear hundreds of ideas, some of which are ideas I would have thought up on my own at some point in the future had they not been suggested to me, do those then become off-limits to me, or require me to pay someone for their use? Surely out of hundreds of ideas, some of them are ones I would have dreamed up on my own at some future date. Am I supposed to somehow magically predict my future trains of thought in a hypothetical universe where I hadn't heard those things, and only use the ones I would have independently conceived? Maybe waiting until the date when I would have conceived them rather than using them now, to be fair? That's clearly impossible. Maybe I should deliberately refuse all contact with others to ensure that any idea I have can be used without any fear of impropriety. Ideas are cheap. You go to any game company, and the game designers have ideas, the programmers have ideas, the producers have ideas, the artists have idea, the playtesters have ideas, EVERYONE wants the company to use THEIR ideas. They generally have little interest in looking at outside ideas for any reason, having more ideas than they could possibly cram into the few games per year that they can develop, and NO interest in actually using any outside ideas for anything. I remember Richard Garriott going around telling people how foolish it was for Virgin to have shown a demo of The Seventh Guest a year before it was done, because Origin looked at that and thought "Hey, we could whip out a game like this with the resources we have, and get it on the market before this one ships." Of course they thought about that and concluded "Well all those resources are tied up in our next Ultima and Wing Commander sequels, and we want and need to keep them there", so there WAS no Seventh Guest clone made. So where exactly is the loss to Virgin? I also remember some bitching about having shown off Strike Commander publically and then seeing other flight sims come out from other companies that had goraud shading before Strike Commander came out, because people saw the Strike demo and "stole" the idea. Wake-up call... Goraud shading is in who knows how many computer graphics textbooks, eh? Origin didn't invent it, they simply realized "hey, home computers are getting fast enough that we can start using more of these well-known techniques in real-time without slowing the game down too much". Does anybody really want to believe that other programmers at other companies wouldn't have followed that same line of reasoning to some of the same conclusions, or that they weren't already before they saw that demo? Ideas are cheap. N months of hard work IMPLEMENTING an idea has value, especially if it's done well. Any idea I've ever mentioned anywhere publically, or ever do in the future, is absolutely free for anyone to use anywhere in any way, commercially or non-commercially, with or without credit. If I didn't feel that way about some given idea, I simply wouldn't tell people about it in public. I do appreciate credit when it's given to me, by the way, but I don't feel that it's my place to insist upon it or that I have any moral entitlement to receive it, unless there was an agreement that I'd receive credit between me and the person I'm talking to, which was put into place BEFORE I told them the idea(s). If they choose to take on an obligation to give me credit AFTER they hear the idea I would expect them to honor that as well, but once I give them the idea without having first received such a commitment, it is entirely their choice whether they wish to take on such an obligation. If this sort of thing is a problem for a lot of the people on the list, I could just leave. I have more than enough ideas to keep me busy implementing stuff for the next few years just trying to implement them all in code, and I always think up new ones faster than I can get the old ones done. I guess the trick is in picking which ones to do first. -- Dr. Cat </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01298" HREF="msg01298.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Intellectual property</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Caliban Tiresias Darklock <caliban#darklock,com></li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01296" HREF="msg01296.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01294" HREF="msg01294.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Jeff Kesselman <jeffk#tenetwork,com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="01277" HREF="msg01277.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01289.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01291.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] MUDs - An environment, not a game</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01289.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01294.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01290"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01290"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01274" HREF="msg01274.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Tue 10 Jun 1997, 13:59 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01279" HREF="msg01279.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#eden,com">cat#eden,com</a>, Tue 10 Jun 1997, 22:34 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01277" HREF="msg01277.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Tue 10 Jun 1997, 21:54 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01289" HREF="msg01289.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 11 Jun 1997, 13:16 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01290" HREF="msg01290.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#eden,com">cat#eden,com</a>, Wed 11 Jun 1997, 21:12 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01294" HREF="msg01294.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 12 Jun 1997, 02:10 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01296" HREF="msg01296.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 12 Jun 1997, 02:58 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01302" HREF="msg01302.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Genuinely brief intro</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Thu 12 Jun 1997, 12:15 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01298" HREF="msg01298.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Intellectual property</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 12 Jun 1997, 03:00 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>