<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life --> <!--X-From-R13: pnyvonaNqnexybpx.pbz (Qnyvona Fverfvnf Rnexybpx) --> <!--X-Date: from major.globecomm.net [207.51.48.5] by in11.ibm.net id 865202431.31196-1 Sun Jun 1 22:00:31 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 3395ea73.5022142#relay,mnsinc.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: 199705311015.DAA10603#user2,inficad.com --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01026.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01030.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00993.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01049.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01029">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01029">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01029">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</A> (Caliban Tiresias Darklock)</LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sun, 01 Jun 1997 22:09:27 GMT</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> On Sun, 1 Jun 1997 09:39:00 PST8PDT, Adam Wiggins <nightfall#inficad,com> wrote: >If I kill you within the context of the game and you take it personally, >than YOU are not playing the game correctly. 'Within the context of the game' is the key there. Let me give you an example. A player I know decided it might be cool to play a six year old. Just a regular everyday six year old. She was having great fun with it for about six months; it opened a lot of RP possibilities for herself and others. The problem is, she ran into a character whose character background and concept indicated that he was a child molester. Entirely in keeping with his character, he kidnapped, molested, and killed her character. Just because she was a child. He managed to get into the same area with her on a deserted street, and called a staff member saying he was kidnapping the child by knocking her over the head. He then simply dragged her off and said 'Okay, I'm basically going to kill you, and there's nothing you can do about it'. This was true. Logically, she had no options. He was rather expert at it, after all. But the player -- in fact, a LOT of players -- were up in arms about this. His argument was that this is what his character would do. The staff supported this by saying that unfortunately, he was completely in character and completely justified within his character concept and the abilities available to him. Now, the question that I have is, was that really fair? Did she have a right to be upset? I certainly think she did. My argument is that he should NOT have killed the character; his argument was that she could have identified him. This is true. However, why in a world theoretically full of children that are NOT being played by participants in the game did he have to do this to a player character? Should the player just go 'oh well' about the loss of a character she had played for six months, just because she happened to run into someone who could come up with an excuse to off her? >Now, I'm a human being. Human beings are fond of conflict. In most >cases, we consider situations where everything is hunky-dory to be downright >boring. We like challanges, which is why we do pretty much everything we >do, including playing games. Where's the challenge in conking a six-year-old over the head and killing her? It certainly didn't make his life any easier. Those of us with powers beyond the human norm hunted him down and killed him. We left no trace. Not even a body. We didn't even give him a chance to do much; under the same situation, something around a dozen of us hustled him into an alley. One of us put him to sleep, and then we called staff and said we were taking him to my basement. I'm not the nicest guy either. My basement has a lot of very nasty little machines in it. We gave the phrase 'getting medieval' an entire new twist. Without the other player's participation. We did bring the six year old's player in to observe, just for her own peace of mind, that this sort of thing was not going to be tolerated. The major difference was that he had done something to deserve it. >I find it pretty refreshing to enter a raw, basic world which is both >dangerous and vital. The conflicts here are closer to the basic elements >of survival. In a world with permanent death, killing another player's character is a lot different. You seem to think that every game is just like a MUD, where death means you lose your equipment and a few experience points but you can go back and get your corpse. There are a LOT of games out there where death is completely different; dead is dead, after all, and it ruins the logical consistency of some game worlds to have dead people show up again. In that context, death is a lot more serious than a few XP. -+[caliban#darklock,com]+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+- I am here to grind your eyes harder into the miasmic bile of life; to show you the truth and the beauty in the whisper of steel on silk and the crimson scent of blood as it rises to meet the caress of a blade. -+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+[<A HREF="http://www.darklock.com/]+-">http://www.darklock.com/]+-</A> </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01104" HREF="msg01104.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01066" HREF="msg01066.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Marian Griffith <gryphon#iaehv,nl></li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01049" HREF="msg01049.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user1,inficad.com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00993" HREF="msg00993.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#inficad,com></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01026.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] RP: TIime to define</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01030.html">Resets, langs, and quests</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00993.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01049.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01029"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01029"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01100" HREF="msg01100.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 00:27 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00933" HREF="msg00933.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Fri 30 May 1997, 01:27 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00971" HREF="msg00971.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Sat 31 May 1997, 06:29 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00993" HREF="msg00993.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Sat 31 May 1997, 17:14 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01029" HREF="msg01029.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Mon 02 Jun 1997, 05:00 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01049" HREF="msg01049.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Mon 02 Jun 1997, 12:40 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01051" HREF="msg01051.html">[MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jamie Norrish <a href="mailto:jamie#sans,vuw.ac.nz">jamie#sans,vuw.ac.nz</a>, Mon 02 Jun 1997, 13:40 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01097" HREF="msg01097.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Tue 03 Jun 1997, 20:02 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01121" HREF="msg01121.html">[MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jamie Norrish <a href="mailto:jamie#sans,vuw.ac.nz">jamie#sans,vuw.ac.nz</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 06:03 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>