<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life --> <!--X-From-R13: Xrss Yrffryzna <wrssxNgrargjbex.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: from stimpy.globecomm.net [207.51.48.4] by in11.ibm.net id 865364964.37820-1 Tue Jun 3 19:09:24 1997 CUT --> <!--X-Message-Id: 3.0.32.19970603121202.009dd228#mail,tenetwork.com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg01110.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01112.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg01105.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg01136.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#01111">Author</A> | <A HREF="#01111">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#01111">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Jeff Kesselman <<A HREF="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Tue, 03 Jun 1997 12:12:02 -0700</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> At 08:27 AM 6/3/97 PST8PDT, you wrote: >You can be upset or not if you like. I don't like being upset, myself. >I don't find it very fun. As long as: > >1) The scope, purpose, and limitations of the game are made clear from the >outset >2) All character behave within this scope > >Then there's no reason anyone should ever be 'upset'. (I'm considering >'upset' to be really disturbed, as opposed to just disapointed or slightly >perturbed.) > >We are very clear in the help files that our world is dangerous; there >are a lot of racial hatreds, religious conflicts, magical conflicts, >dangerous creatures roaming the lands, strange magical forces at work Marian's summation is something i agree with strongly and why I keep harping on "define your game". But in the above exampel you HAVENT defined your game. You've only defined your agme world. The game a bunch of adult roleplayers will PLAY in that world is totally different and has totally different ASSUMED RULES (important concept, the "social contract") then the one a bunch of serious Pkillers wil play. You need to define not what the players can expect of your world setting (though that is helpful for Roleplayers to undertsnad what kinds of characters fit) but what your GAME EXPECTS OF THE PLAYERS. Without this you have the problems and hurt feelings Marian referenced. If you expect it to be a player-kills-player world, you need that upfront. if you exptec it to be a cooperative roleplay envrionment, you need to say THAT. > >So I still don't understand why you should ever be seriously upset as long >as everyone is keeping everything in the context of the game. (Ie, not One more time. Because roleplayers play with respect for each others characters and stories and do not intentionally impinge on them or take control away. Pkilling as a regular thing does take control away. Neither is right or wrong, btu they are imcompatable game models. We've gone over this so many times I'm having trouble figuring out what we are doing wrong in explaining this. Can someone maybe assist? >Yup, that's what I've been saying. We've found that it's easy enough to >make enemies that you tend to be a little careful about what you say, and Hmm. Intersting. We've seen the opposite. In a heavy Pk environemnt, assholes work hard to "max out" and then use it as a lever to abuse, annoy, and "talk -shit" to other players. Maybe thats a questio nto a degree of your combat model. DSO had a particualrly poor one. >around who. This is as opposed to a no-PK whatever where people can >stand around in town all day long bragging about this or that item they >have, talking shit to various players, and so on, without every worrying. I guess I have to ask 'so what??" if your MUD doesnt have a muzzle, I'ld never play it unless I was assured that you were doing rigerous control of the user population. JK </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <ul compact><li><strong>Follow-Ups</strong>: <ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01155" HREF="msg01155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> clawrenc#cup,hp.com</li></ul> <li><strong><A NAME="01136" HREF="msg01136.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong> <ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Adam Wiggins <nightfall#inficad,com></li></ul> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01110.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Room-based vs. coordinate-based</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01112.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01105.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg01136.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#01111"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#01111"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="01101" HREF="msg01101.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 01:01 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01154" HREF="msg01154.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 01:00 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01161" HREF="msg01161.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Caliban Tiresias Darklock <a href="mailto:caliban#darklock,com">caliban#darklock,com</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 06:51 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01105" HREF="msg01105.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 01:23 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01111" HREF="msg01111.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 02:09 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01136" HREF="msg01136.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 11:29 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01155" HREF="msg01155.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, clawrenc <a href="mailto:clawrenc#cup,hp.com">clawrenc#cup,hp.com</a>, Thu 05 Jun 1997, 04:18 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="01112" HREF="msg01112.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Jeff Kesselman <a href="mailto:jeffk#tenetwork,com">jeffk#tenetwork,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 02:46 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="01147" HREF="msg01147.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Life</A></strong>, Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#inficad,com">nightfall#inficad,com</a>, Wed 04 Jun 1997, 20:47 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>