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<H1>Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: <A HREF="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</A></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:16:10 -0500 (EST)</LI>
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<PRE>
On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 coder#ibm,net wrote:
>
> On 20/02/98 at 02:35 AM, Jon Leonard <jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com> said:
> >On Sun, Feb 15, 1998 at 11:55:11PM +0000, coder#ibm,net wrote: > On
> >14/02/98 at 01:58 AM, Adam Wiggins <nightfall#user2,inficad.com> said: >
>
> >> It makes a lot more sense to me to move away from TCP for MUD clients, and
> >> instead look to UDP and design the client and server to be tolerant of
> >> dropped packets. Sure, things will get a bit jerky of occassion, but it
> >> sure beats waiting for the time-out and re-send of a dropped packet.
>
> >I'd be extremely reluctant to do this. It's very easy to redesign TCP
> >badly, and nearly impossible to do better.
>
> No, you misunderstand.
>
> I am proposing that MUD clients move to a protocol and data model which is
> tolerant of data loss. If packets get lost, or arrive far to late, the
> client won't care and will continue to offer a decent representation of
> what is happening in the game. The main problem with telnet lag is *not*
> latency but dropped packets -- the whole damn client freezes while
> awaiting the lost packet. Instead have the client be predictive and work
> on a best-effort basis. It works with the data it gets, and ignores or
> attempts to generate the data it never sees for whatever reason.
>
> Raph has commented that UOL's client does this in some areas.
Any interested parties may want to look at the IEEE DIS (Distributed
Interactive Simulation) standard (Std. 1278.1-1995 and related docs). It
deals heavily with maintaining the simulation state across multiple
machines with unreliable network connections. Nothing overly
revolutionary, but it lays out a lot of things in one place.
I've been working with it a lot at work the past year or so and will
probably unconscoiusly steal a lot of it's ideas. :)
> >For example, TCP has some fairly nice properties for slowing
> >transmissions during times of high load. Running a UDP MUD on an
> >overloaded network could easily be a major contributor to that overload,
> >and keep it from getting better.
>
> The key feature of TCP which I'd remove would be the error correction.
> Given a predictive client its both unecessary and counter-productive.
it makes for very odd entity behavior if you leave it in... aye. :)
-Greg
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<li><strong><A NAME="00774" HREF="msg00774.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> J C Lawrence <claw#under,engr.sgi.com></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics)</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00459" HREF="msg00459.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics)</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sat 14 Feb 1998, 09:49 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00483" HREF="msg00483.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 16 Feb 1998, 07:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00537" HREF="msg00537.html">Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com">jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com</a>, Fri 20 Feb 1998, 10:24 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00565" HREF="msg00565.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 23 Feb 1998, 19:20 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00569" HREF="msg00569.html">Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Mon 23 Feb 1998, 21:15 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00774" HREF="msg00774.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 23:43 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00570" HREF="msg00570.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Mon 23 Feb 1998, 22:18 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00641" HREF="msg00641.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user1,inficad.com">nightfall#user1,inficad.com</a>, Sat 28 Feb 1998, 04:54 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00654" HREF="msg00654.html">Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
s001gmu <a href="mailto:s001gmu#nova,wright.edu">s001gmu#nova,wright.edu</a>, Sun 01 Mar 1998, 02:40 GMT
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