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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] byte-code anyone?</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] byte-code anyone?</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Jon Leonard <<A HREF="mailto:jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com">jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 17:09:28 -0800</LI>
<LI><em>Cc</em>: Jon Leonard <<A HREF="mailto:jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com">jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com</A>></LI>
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<PRE>
On Mon, Feb 16, 1998 at 10:40:57AM +0000, Chris Gray wrote:
> [Jon Leonard:]
[stuff on byte codes and compiling to machine language for speed]
> :My recommendations would be more complete if I were done, but here's the
> :advice I'm giving myself:
> :
> :1) Test the virtual machine carefully starting early on, so fewer bugs need
> : to be laboriously traced by single-stepping an interpreter.
>
> Hmm. I'd planned on testing by fire. My byte-code machine is going to be
> quite low level, so visual inspection is feasible. Also, it would be extra
> work to create an 'assembler' for it.
Maybe I should have said "test with tiny cases first". Whenever I've
spent a long time tracking down a bug, it turns out that there's a simpler
test that would have shown me the bug if I'd been more careful.
Consequently, I test for correctness early and often.
> :2) Design so that no matter how perverse the byte codes you get fed are,
> : you don't crash or violate security assumptions. Going from an interpreted
> : language to byte codes or machine code makes demonstrating correctness
> : much harder.
>
> That would slow the system down too much. I've found, for example, that
> even having a 'default' in the byte-code case statement adds noticeable
> overhead. I have made a simple disassembler that lets me see the byte-
> code for functions. Since the only source of byte-code will be the simple
> compiler, my current view is that checking the byte-code is not needed.
> There will be some processing required to set it up for execution (linking
> to other bytecode), but I think that's about it.
That is the other option, controlling all the possible bytecode sources.
Since my design calls for (eventually) passing code between servers that
don't trust each other, I can't do that.
It's a matter of taste, efficiency, and paranoia.
I'm a little suprised that the default case slows it down a lot. Maybe
the C compiler doesn't know to just translate it as an index into a
256-element jump table (I assume you switch() on a byte), and fill in
all the unspecified ones with the default.
> :4) Don't expect to be done soon. A compiler can be a lot of work.
>
> Ah, but most of it is already done. I expect to be running some simple
> byte-code today. I haven't even specified all of the byte-codes yet, but
> doing things incrementally lets me cycle the design with little cost. As
> long as I have enough for at least function entry and exit, I can run things.
File that under "Jon's advice to himself", then. This stuff is taking
me quite a while. Maybe the fact that I keep working on other things
is at fault.
> Oh yes, AmigaOS has the 'load' and 'unload' calls, so the scheme of
> compiling via an external compiler could be made to work. The big issue
> would be resolution of references to the already-loaded code. You'd have
> to do that with a jump vector passed to the loaded code. (I did that on
> a game system on CP/M, and I also use it in my current AmigaMUD system.)
If the boundaries of your computation work out right, then you could
pass arguments through IO. Done right, this would provide a migration
path to a distributed MUD. One of the shared library techniques is needed
for a more typical compiled function.
Jon Leonard
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<LI><STRONG><A NAME="00492" HREF="msg00492.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] byte-code anyone?</A></STRONG>
<UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA (Chris Gray)</LI></UL></LI>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00528" HREF="msg00528.html">[MUD-Dev] Re: Version Control (was: DBs and Events)</A></strong>,
Raph & Kristen Koster <a href="mailto:koster#eden,com">koster#eden,com</a>, Wed 18 Feb 1998, 19:28 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00559" HREF="msg00559.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Version Control (was: DBs and Events)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 23 Feb 1998, 17:31 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
<UL>
<li><Possible follow-up(s)><br>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00561" HREF="msg00561.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: Version Control (was: DBs and Events)</A></strong>,
Felix A. Croes <a href="mailto:felix#xs1,simplex.nl">felix#xs1,simplex.nl</a>, Mon 23 Feb 1998, 18:19 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00492" HREF="msg00492.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] byte-code anyone?</A></strong>,
Chris Gray <a href="mailto:cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA">cg#ami-cg,GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA</a>, Mon 16 Feb 1998, 18:27 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00539" HREF="msg00539.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] byte-code anyone?</A></strong>,
Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com">jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com</a>, Fri 20 Feb 1998, 16:13 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00458" HREF="msg00458.html">[MUD-Dev] Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics)</A></strong>,
Brandon J. Rickman <a href="mailto:ashes#pc4,zennet.com">ashes#pc4,zennet.com</a>, Sat 14 Feb 1998, 04:16 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00459" HREF="msg00459.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics)</A></strong>,
Adam Wiggins <a href="mailto:nightfall#user2,inficad.com">nightfall#user2,inficad.com</a>, Sat 14 Feb 1998, 09:49 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00483" HREF="msg00483.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics)</A></strong>,
coder <a href="mailto:coder#ibm,net">coder#ibm,net</a>, Mon 16 Feb 1998, 07:38 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00537" HREF="msg00537.html">Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks)</A></strong>,
Jon Leonard <a href="mailto:jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com">jleonard#divcom,umop-ap.com</a>, Fri 20 Feb 1998, 10:24 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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