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<H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</H1>
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<LI><em>To</em>: Mud Dev Mailing list <<A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</LI>
<LI><em>From</em>: Marian Griffith <<A HREF="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</A>></LI>
<LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 10:48:41 +0000 (GMT)</LI>
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<PRE>
On Thu 18 Dec, Vadim Tkachenko wrote:
> Marian Griffith wrote:
> > On Tue 09 Dec, Derrick Jones wrote:
> > > On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Marian Griffith wrote:
> > > > Having a map is not the critical issue. You need to have a lot of back-
> > > > ground information of how areas look, how they interact and how they
> > > > came to be to be able to create a consistent world.
> Agreed absolutely. Also, there's a possibility to create additional
> information source in the maps - for example (I assume the kind of maps
> you're getting by walking through, and as the more area is covered, the
> representation of that area appears on your map, or, you can find it as
> an IC element), the very picture of the certain area may help you to
> solve the quest.
> > > > You also run into a problem of scale.
> > Finally there is the issue of **relative sizes**. Inside, rooms reasonably
> > match the actual locations in size (ignoring for now the special cases).
> > Planes, at the other extreme, but this really is true for just about any
> > outdoor region, have rooms sized in kilometers or more. Fixed size rooms,
> > as have been proposed, would lead to deserts of tens of thousands of rooms
> > across. All with identical descriptions. Clearly this would be tedious to
> > create and even more tedious to travel.
> Somewhat? There are two aspects - RP and implementation.
Try to explain that to the player ;)
The aim of creating that desert was to make a desert, not to create a boring
maze of rooms. Many small rooms quickly become a maze and if there are many
I suppose there is some practical limit about their number. Creating few but
large rooms to represent the same desert (as happens on muds nowadays) also
has some drawbacks, most notably that you lose the sence of size of that de-
sert. In effect it is smaller than a city (because there are fewer rooms and
you can cross all rooms at the same speed regardless of the actual size).
> So, what I'm going to use is just to have a vertical structure of
> areas/subareas/sub-subareas and so on.
> Thus, it's enough to create a description for the whole desert and then
> you'll see only this description unless there are some details you want
> the user to notice about some specific zone (room) in the desert (btw, I
> hate the concept of 'room' as such, but after detailed consideration I
> see that this is a must for a SIMPLE implementation, and I suspect
> that's why the rooms are still out there - or else you're doomed to
> track too many changes and drain the CPU power, later about that).
> From the RP point of view, tell me please, isn't it as boring as walking
> through the real desert? And, provided the correct navigation/movement
> tools/skills/whatever it becomes a valuable addition to the game itself
> - yes, it's big, I mean BIG, it's boring, I mean BORING, but! the desert
> can reveal unimaginable treasures upon a close examination.
If crossing the desert means typing 'E' a couple of thousand times and
watching the same identical description every time then it is boring in
the wrong way. Of course I have no real solution, but I was trying to
point out what types of areas are difficult to represent in a rooms and
exits based mud.
> > The problem as I see it is that there simply is no convenient way to create
> > the richness of a natural environment in a way that is both simple to build
> > and pleasant to play. A region 2000 rooms across is impossible to write.
> Unless you automate and generalize it.
I have yet to see this done in such a way that the richness of a natural
environment is preserved. Of course you can surprise us all (I hope you
do!)
> > Clearly that would majorly change the nature of a game set in such a world.
> > Travelling across the plain would indeed be a major expedition and players
> > could be expected to prepare carefully for the undertaking.
>
> This is right,
>
> > Also there can be no more quick equipment or experience runs
> > in remote areas.
> Disagree here (maybe I just don't understand? Can you please rephrase,
> because I don't quite understand what is an equipment or experience
> run?), because
An equipment run is a practice found on many muds where players after a
reboot log on and rush to remote areas to obtain equipment that loads
only once (or infrequently anyways). Experience runs are somewhat simi-
lar, here players quickly run around the gameworld to repeatedly fight
monsters that give them the most reward for the least effort. Such mon-
sters are often found at opposing extremes of the game world.
> > Simply since getting there itself is taking too much time.
> Just to get to the hearth of a desert will require significant amount of
> courage, resources and survival skills, so I believe that the desert
> traveling (especially if it's a part of a larger picture) should be
> rewarded accordingly. Provided the player[s] don't die on their way, of
> course :-)
That was the point I was trying to make. Changing the travel times on
a game will alter the focus of that game. Most likely change it consi-
derably.
Marian
--
Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
will there be loneliness ...
Rolan Choosing Talia,
Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
</PRE>
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<li><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">Vast areas in muds</A></strong>
<ul compact><li><em>From:</em> Ling <K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk></li></ul>
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<ul><li>Thread context:
<BLOCKQUOTE><UL>
<LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Vast areas in muds</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM>
<ul compact>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00261" HREF="msg00261.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Vast areas in muds</A></strong>,
Mike Sellers <a href="mailto:mike#online-alchemy,com">mike#online-alchemy,com</a>, Tue 20 Jan 1998, 06:00 GMT
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00262" HREF="msg00262.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Vast areas in muds</A></strong>,
John G. <a href="mailto:ashen#pixi,com">ashen#pixi,com</a>, Tue 20 Jan 1998, 16:36 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00263" HREF="msg00263.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Vast areas in muds</A></strong>,
Nathan Yospe <a href="mailto:yospe#hawaii,edu">yospe#hawaii,edu</a>, Tue 20 Jan 1998, 18:44 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
</ul>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00251" HREF="msg00251.html">Summary</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 17 Jan 1998, 15:31 GMT
<LI><strong><A NAME="00249" HREF="msg00249.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Re: BUILDERS: Ferries</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 17 Jan 1998, 10:40 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00253" HREF="msg00253.html">Vast areas in muds</A></strong>,
Ling <a href="mailto:K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk">K.L.Lo-94#student,lboro.ac.uk</a>, Mon 19 Jan 1998, 19:24 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
</LI>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00248" HREF="msg00248.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Marian Griffith <a href="mailto:gryphon#iaehv,nl">gryphon#iaehv,nl</a>, Sat 17 Jan 1998, 10:40 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00260" HREF="msg00260.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Jon A. Lambert <a href="mailto:jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com">jlsysinc#ix,netcom.com</a>, Tue 20 Jan 1998, 04:42 GMT
<UL>
<LI><strong><A NAME="00286" HREF="msg00286.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Gods, worshipers and the balance</A></strong>,
Vadim Tkachenko <a href="mailto:vadimt#4cs,com">vadimt#4cs,com</a>, Thu 22 Jan 1998, 20:43 GMT
</LI>
</UL>
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