<!-- MHonArc v2.4.4 --> <!--X-Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients --> <!--X-From-R13: Egrcura Lrcc <mbenaNravq.pbz> --> <!--X-Date: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 18:38:25 +0000 --> <!--X-Message-Id: 34EF1F88.8D226C4A#enid,com --> <!--X-Content-Type: text/plain --> <!--X-Reference: Pine.LNX.3.91.980215082454.65C-100000@uni-corn.demon.co.uk --> <!--X-Head-End--> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <html> <head> <title>MUD-Dev message, Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</title> <!-- meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow" --> <link rev="made" href="mailto:zoran#enid,com"> </head> <body background="/backgrounds/paperback.gif" bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000" link="#0000FF" alink="#FF0000" vlink="#006000"> <font size="+4" color="#804040"> <strong><em>MUD-Dev<br>mailing list archive</em></strong> </font> <br> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] <br clear=all><hr> <!--X-Body-Begin--> <!--X-User-Header--> <!--X-User-Header-End--> <!--X-TopPNI--> Date: [ <a href="msg00551.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00553.html">Next</a> ] Thread: [ <a href="msg00550.html">Previous</a> | <a href="msg00199.html">Next</a> ] Index: [ <A HREF="author.html#00552">Author</A> | <A HREF="#00552">Date</A> | <A HREF="thread.html#00552">Thread</A> ] <!--X-TopPNI-End--> <!--X-MsgBody--> <!--X-Subject-Header-Begin--> <H1>Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</H1> <HR> <!--X-Subject-Header-End--> <!--X-Head-of-Message--> <UL> <LI><em>To</em>: <A HREF="mailto:mud-dev#null,net">mud-dev#null,net</A></LI> <LI><em>Subject</em>: Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</LI> <LI><em>From</em>: Stephen Zepp <<A HREF="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</A>></LI> <LI><em>Date</em>: Sat, 21 Feb 1998 12:40:08 -0600</LI> </UL> <!--X-Head-of-Message-End--> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-Begin--> <HR> <!--X-Head-Body-Sep-End--> <!--X-Body-of-Message--> <PRE> Greg Munt wrote: > > On Fri, 13 Feb 1998, Stephen Zepp wrote: > > [Pueblo interface] > [my description of my interface] > > > > Players hated it. I think that out of about 20 people that saw it, one person > > actually wanted to use it continuously, and was begging to see the code to > > support it on his mud ( another ack ). I just found that your generic "text > > mudder" is pretty set in their ways, and aren't interested in too much change. > > Am I alone in thinking that player demand should not drive new mud > development? On this list, I don't think I am. (On Usenet... Hrmm.) > > Generalising, I should say that players are dumb and stupid, and will > follow you so long as there is a clear path from the past to the present > to the future. > > Obviously, there is no path to what we must consider as the future of UIs. > In this and similar situations, you should ignore what the players say > they want (generalising again, what players say they want is not usually > what they want - most of the time, they don't know they want it until they > see it, and even then, some period of acclimitisation is warranted), and > go ahead and do your thing. I remember the uproar when Infocom started > using graphics in their interactive fiction. A while later, and no-one was > interested in a text-only interface. Look at Sierra's "Space Quest" series > - originally graphics and text, it is now wholly a GUI. > > You can't make decisions based on the current demands of the players - > but, rather, on their future demands. And their future UI demands are > definitely graphical. > > My current project will be supporting telnet only as a courtesy. There > will be no line editor for telnet users. (Although I could do one, if I > wanted to.) I should imagine that all of my initial players will be > coming in through telnet. That does not mean I will support telnet in > anything but a minimal way. > > PLAYER DEMAND SHOULD NOT BE A FACTOR IN INNOVATIVE MUD DEVELOPMENT. > I agree with this part, but you've also got to consider that no matter how well _you_ like an interface, it's the players that will use it. I didn't give up on the peublo stuff because my players ( really playtesters, I'm not open ), didn't like it, but because sending full length html was way to cumbersome...lag was obvious whenever I had to send 24 characters for a single forground color change, for example, as opposed to the under 7 char for a straight ansi sequence. We've been playing around with a 3 character command code sent from the mud to a custom client, with a mud-configurable lookup table de-referencing the command codes into client tasks. Should be much more efficient. In general, players shouldn't drive your design, but I strongly feel that they must interact with it in the early stages to ensure that it's gonna work. For example, I have always liked SSI designs, but hated their interfaces so totally that I will never buy another SSI game. Stronghold comes quickly to mind..a really cool game, but impossible ( for me ) to control and play effectively. Z </PRE> <!--X-Body-of-Message-End--> <!--X-MsgBody-End--> <!--X-Follow-Ups--> <HR> <!--X-Follow-Ups-End--> <!--X-References--> <UL><LI><STRONG>References</STRONG>: <UL> <LI><STRONG><A NAME="00549" HREF="msg00549.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></STRONG> <UL><LI><EM>From:</EM> Greg Munt <greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk></LI></UL></LI> </UL></LI></UL> <!--X-References-End--> <!--X-BotPNI--> <UL> <LI>Prev by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00551.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Unique items (was: Graphic MUDS/Ultima Online)</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by Date: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00553.html">Position sorting</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Prev by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00550.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Next by thread: <STRONG><A HREF="msg00199.html">Re: MUD Development Digest</A></STRONG> </LI> <LI>Index(es): <UL> <LI><A HREF="index.html#00552"><STRONG>Date</STRONG></A></LI> <LI><A HREF="thread.html#00552"><STRONG>Thread</STRONG></A></LI> </UL> </LI> </UL> <!--X-BotPNI-End--> <!--X-User-Footer--> <!--X-User-Footer-End--> <ul><li>Thread context: <BLOCKQUOTE><UL> <LI><STRONG>Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</STRONG>, <EM>(continued)</EM> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <ul compact> <LI><strong><A NAME="00621" HREF="msg00621.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></strong>, Travis Casey <a href="mailto:efindel#polaris,net">efindel#polaris,net</a>, Fri 27 Feb 1998, 12:22 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00756" HREF="msg00756.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></strong>, J C Lawrence <a href="mailto:claw#under,engr.sgi.com">claw#under,engr.sgi.com</a>, Thu 19 Mar 1998, 00:08 GMT </LI> </ul> </ul> </ul> </ul> <LI><strong><A NAME="00549" HREF="msg00549.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></strong>, Greg Munt <a href="mailto:greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk">greg#uni-corn,demon.co.uk</a>, Sat 21 Feb 1998, 11:47 GMT <UL> <LI><strong><A NAME="00550" HREF="msg00550.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></strong>, Matt Chatterley <a href="mailto:matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org">matt#mpc,dyn.ml.org</a>, Sat 21 Feb 1998, 13:30 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00552" HREF="msg00552.html">Re: [MUD-Dev] Clients</A></strong>, Stephen Zepp <a href="mailto:zoran#enid,com">zoran#enid,com</a>, Sat 21 Feb 1998, 18:38 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </ul> </ul> </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00199" HREF="msg00199.html">Re: MUD Development Digest</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Sun 11 Jan 1998, 21:18 GMT <UL> <li><Possible follow-up(s)><br> <LI><strong><A NAME="00361" HREF="msg00361.html">Re: MUD Development Digest</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Sun 01 Feb 1998, 01:20 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00394" HREF="msg00394.html">Re: MUD Development Digest</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Sun 08 Feb 1998, 22:30 GMT </LI> <LI><strong><A NAME="00626" HREF="msg00626.html">Re: MUD Development Digest</A></strong>, Dr. Cat <a href="mailto:cat#bga,com">cat#bga,com</a>, Fri 27 Feb 1998, 20:04 GMT </LI> </UL> </LI> </UL></BLOCKQUOTE> </ul> <hr> <center> [ <a href="../">Other Periods</a> | <a href="../../">Other mailing lists</a> | <a href="/search.php3">Search</a> ] </center> <hr> </body> </html>